Gear Up Landings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: london
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure that retractables are more prone to accidents than fixed gear aircraft, merely that both types are prone to different specific kinds of accident.
I would guess that fixed gear aircraft are more prone to accidents bourn of miss-handling and inexperience (wheel-barrowed landings, flight into unplanned IMC, etc) whereas retractables suffer more from errors made with complex systems (gear-up, fuel management in complex fuel systems etc).
In terms of premiums, I now run a PA32R-301 but used to run a PA32-300 and can confirm that even with the same hull values, there was very little between them in terms of premiums.
Similarly, I used to own an Archer and then traded up to an Arrow - very little between them in terms of premiums.
The hull value and the number of seats were the things that triggered the big price jump; presumably the insurers felt that in the event of an accident, having to pay out to 6 sets of relations looked much more expensive than paying out to four.
I would guess that fixed gear aircraft are more prone to accidents bourn of miss-handling and inexperience (wheel-barrowed landings, flight into unplanned IMC, etc) whereas retractables suffer more from errors made with complex systems (gear-up, fuel management in complex fuel systems etc).
In terms of premiums, I now run a PA32R-301 but used to run a PA32-300 and can confirm that even with the same hull values, there was very little between them in terms of premiums.
Similarly, I used to own an Archer and then traded up to an Arrow - very little between them in terms of premiums.
The hull value and the number of seats were the things that triggered the big price jump; presumably the insurers felt that in the event of an accident, having to pay out to 6 sets of relations looked much more expensive than paying out to four.
PA31 uses a similar concept to prevent a ground retraction. In the PA31's case, a squat switch controls a solenoid behind the instrument panel that puts a pin through a hole in the gear handle to prevent the gear handle being selected up. Anytime an engine is running then the hydraulic system is powered and can operate the gear. Not much else they can do I suppose except provide some sort of selector lock-out like that.
I imagine it's similar with the Yak. If the pneumatic system is charged it can operate the gear. In the Yak's case a manual lock-out instead of an automatic one but the effect is the same (as long as it gets used....)
I imagine it's similar with the Yak. If the pneumatic system is charged it can operate the gear. In the Yak's case a manual lock-out instead of an automatic one but the effect is the same (as long as it gets used....)
In the Nanchang and Yak series the slider bar will block the handle from moving pass the neutral position. The handle has to move farther up then where the lock is for the gear to retract.
I teach that the handle down and lock across are done as one motion and find that for me it is now so automatic that I don't consciously tell my self to move the slider bolt. I of course still do the gear down, rods up, 3 green, slider over check on final every time.
I teach that the handle down and lock across are done as one motion and find that for me it is now so automatic that I don't consciously tell my self to move the slider bolt. I of course still do the gear down, rods up, 3 green, slider over check on final every time.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also do not beleive retractable pilots are 25% more likely to have an accident, however a wheels up landing is likely to be vastly more expensive than other accidents. At a minimum, there will be a new prop and shock loaded engine to sort out, pluss all the structural and paint damage from skidding down the runway on the belly.
So it's not just extra risk, it's extra risk and potential higher repair costs.
So it's not just extra risk, it's extra risk and potential higher repair costs.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sensible F
in 25 years of flying and thousands of hours in retractable twins I have never landed gear up!
I was very close to doing so once (see previous post of mine in this thread)
Correct use of checklists will reduce the majority but I firmly believe the bells and whistles fitted to most aircraft (some up to 30 years old plus ) are inadequate.
Pilots are often not alerted by bells and whistles but are alerted by electronic voice commands! Gear Gear Gear! is something no pilot would confuse and fitted to modern aircraft.
It is when a pilot least expects it that the Gear can be missed! Under extreme concentration or poor checks
Pace
in 25 years of flying and thousands of hours in retractable twins I have never landed gear up!
I was very close to doing so once (see previous post of mine in this thread)
Correct use of checklists will reduce the majority but I firmly believe the bells and whistles fitted to most aircraft (some up to 30 years old plus ) are inadequate.
Pilots are often not alerted by bells and whistles but are alerted by electronic voice commands! Gear Gear Gear! is something no pilot would confuse and fitted to modern aircraft.
It is when a pilot least expects it that the Gear can be missed! Under extreme concentration or poor checks
Pace
