Gardan GY-80 Horizon .. Nice A/C?
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Gardan GY-80 Horizon .. Nice A/C?
Hi, I have the opportunity to have a share in a Gardan GY-80 Horizon that is based in an airfield literally a couple of miles from me, the A/C is very pretty to look at, is IMC equip and well looked after, however before i was informed about this share i had truly never heard of a Gardan GY-80 Horizon in my life!
I have been looking to get a share in something like a PA28 however lots of people have advised me to look around a bit before going for the easy 'spamcan' pa28 option as there is much nicer and able A/C out there that i could fly for more or less the same money. So, i found this GY-80.. What are they like?! how do they compare to a PA28? are they reliable? can you chuck them about a bit without overstressing anything? Are they an overall good aircraft?
This particular one has a 180hp engine and i have been told it can carry 4 people + full fuel without being overweight!?
Any advice / experiences / knowledge of this A/C is much appreciated.
Many thanks
Ryan
I have been looking to get a share in something like a PA28 however lots of people have advised me to look around a bit before going for the easy 'spamcan' pa28 option as there is much nicer and able A/C out there that i could fly for more or less the same money. So, i found this GY-80.. What are they like?! how do they compare to a PA28? are they reliable? can you chuck them about a bit without overstressing anything? Are they an overall good aircraft?
This particular one has a 180hp engine and i have been told it can carry 4 people + full fuel without being overweight!?
Any advice / experiences / knowledge of this A/C is much appreciated.
Many thanks
Ryan
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Good choice, got many hours on them, performance far better than a PA28 and a joy to fly but then it is French! If it has a 180HP engine then no problem carrying 4 people and full fuel. The 160HP is really a 3 seater for touring.
The only concerns are spares are not easy to find, the exhaust suffers from cracks due to vibration, never did find a way of fully solving this and make sure the engineers understand the u/c and how it should be set up, this is the main cause of u/c failures on the aircraft, apart from pilot error.
The only concerns are spares are not easy to find, the exhaust suffers from cracks due to vibration, never did find a way of fully solving this and make sure the engineers understand the u/c and how it should be set up, this is the main cause of u/c failures on the aircraft, apart from pilot error.
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Hi
I have had a share in one for the last 16 years it is one of the best types you can fly
go for it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS if you do just remember this tip
flaps up under carriage UP
FLAPS DOWN UNDER CARRIAGE DOWN
this works but only for this type.
PPS ours is just about to be written off group member forgot the above
I have had a share in one for the last 16 years it is one of the best types you can fly
go for it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS if you do just remember this tip
flaps up under carriage UP
FLAPS DOWN UNDER CARRIAGE DOWN
this works but only for this type.
PPS ours is just about to be written off group member forgot the above
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Its a lovely aircraft. I was in a syndicate for one for some time and still instruct for them. Once you get used to the manual gear its a doddle to fly.
Go for it.
Go for it.
Last edited by S-Works; 21st Sep 2013 at 21:39.
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Transfer this to cars.
You know a Ford Mondeo Platinum is a good family car which very much does what etc.
But then there's the Citroen/Alfa Romeo/Fiat/Triumph which all are seductive but take much more maintenance, have values the plummet faster than a plummeting thing and take up a lot of time just keeping them going.
If I'd never flown a GY80 I'd shut up, but hand cranking the gear and flaps both up and down (24 turns if I remember) became tedious after trying an bog standard Cherokee Arrow.
So, yes buy into it and enjoy the ride, but if you want a turn uo, turn the key, turn right after take-off kinda machine stick to Piper, Cessna, Beech (except Skipper) or Robin. You do more flying per pound/per hour fettling than something generally over the Horizon.
Or get a MiniCab - a much better Gardan design.
SGC
You know a Ford Mondeo Platinum is a good family car which very much does what etc.
But then there's the Citroen/Alfa Romeo/Fiat/Triumph which all are seductive but take much more maintenance, have values the plummet faster than a plummeting thing and take up a lot of time just keeping them going.
If I'd never flown a GY80 I'd shut up, but hand cranking the gear and flaps both up and down (24 turns if I remember) became tedious after trying an bog standard Cherokee Arrow.
So, yes buy into it and enjoy the ride, but if you want a turn uo, turn the key, turn right after take-off kinda machine stick to Piper, Cessna, Beech (except Skipper) or Robin. You do more flying per pound/per hour fettling than something generally over the Horizon.
Or get a MiniCab - a much better Gardan design.
SGC
I have had 5 airplanes that I owned either outright or in partnership. I currently own a Grumman AA1B and half of a Nanchang CJ6A.
My experience is it is not the buying the airplane where the grief is it is in the maintenance. I would be very careful buying an low production numbers orphan airplane. One part that is no longer obtainable can ground you for very long periods of time and may turn out to cost astronomical amounts to get fabricated from scratch and certified.
I know nothing about the Horizon but I would ask a lot of questions about what has broken since the airplane was new and how and where and for how much, those same parts could be obtained today
Re my airplanes. When I researched the Grummans I talked to the folks at Fetch Air and I felt confident that there were no significant parts issues for the Grumman singles. The Grumman Cougar twin is another issue however and has a much more uncertain parts supply chain.
For the Nanchang: My home airport has a war bird restoration shop with much experience restoring and maintaining the type and Doug Sapp in Oregon USA has a huge parts inventory.
I would suggest if you do not have an equivalent sense of the maintainabilty of the Horizon than you should reconsider.
My experience is it is not the buying the airplane where the grief is it is in the maintenance. I would be very careful buying an low production numbers orphan airplane. One part that is no longer obtainable can ground you for very long periods of time and may turn out to cost astronomical amounts to get fabricated from scratch and certified.
I know nothing about the Horizon but I would ask a lot of questions about what has broken since the airplane was new and how and where and for how much, those same parts could be obtained today
Re my airplanes. When I researched the Grummans I talked to the folks at Fetch Air and I felt confident that there were no significant parts issues for the Grumman singles. The Grumman Cougar twin is another issue however and has a much more uncertain parts supply chain.
For the Nanchang: My home airport has a war bird restoration shop with much experience restoring and maintaining the type and Doug Sapp in Oregon USA has a huge parts inventory.
I would suggest if you do not have an equivalent sense of the maintainabilty of the Horizon than you should reconsider.
Hi Ryan.
The Gardan is a neat little airplane. It is a sight faster than any PA28 with respective engines and also a good load carrier. It was originally built by Aerospatiale which in turn was taken over by Socata. So it is in a way an ancestor to the TB series.
There are 2 variants, one with a 160 hp O320 engine (there were some with 150 hp but they have all but disappeared or upgraded) and one with a 180 hp O360. The engines are the same as in the respective Piper models, however, some Gardans come with a variable pitch prop.
The 160 hp version with fixed prop has a book speed of about 125 kts, a good 20 kts more than the PA28-160. The 180 hp one with variable prop can apparently do up to 140 kts.
There were 270 or so built before Socata decided to go for the newer version, the ST10 Diplomate. Socata apparently still supports the type to a degree.
Parts for the engines and props are no problem. Actual airplane parts can be found via the numerous user groups for the type as well as to an extent via Socata. It is important that there is someone who knows the airplane and how to deal with it maintenance wise where you are based, if that is the case in the syndicate you are intending to buy into then it is no more a risk than other planes of that aera such as the Rallyes or similar. Generally, they are more bang for the buck than a standard PA28.
The gear and flaps extend/retract together using a mechanism between the two pilots. I only did it once but it is not a big deal. The plane is a dead stable traveller. And it will leave anything below an Arrow behind it.
Have a good chat with the group, look at the maintenance bills and costs in recent years and you'll get the idea.
The Gardan is a neat little airplane. It is a sight faster than any PA28 with respective engines and also a good load carrier. It was originally built by Aerospatiale which in turn was taken over by Socata. So it is in a way an ancestor to the TB series.
There are 2 variants, one with a 160 hp O320 engine (there were some with 150 hp but they have all but disappeared or upgraded) and one with a 180 hp O360. The engines are the same as in the respective Piper models, however, some Gardans come with a variable pitch prop.
The 160 hp version with fixed prop has a book speed of about 125 kts, a good 20 kts more than the PA28-160. The 180 hp one with variable prop can apparently do up to 140 kts.
There were 270 or so built before Socata decided to go for the newer version, the ST10 Diplomate. Socata apparently still supports the type to a degree.
Parts for the engines and props are no problem. Actual airplane parts can be found via the numerous user groups for the type as well as to an extent via Socata. It is important that there is someone who knows the airplane and how to deal with it maintenance wise where you are based, if that is the case in the syndicate you are intending to buy into then it is no more a risk than other planes of that aera such as the Rallyes or similar. Generally, they are more bang for the buck than a standard PA28.
The gear and flaps extend/retract together using a mechanism between the two pilots. I only did it once but it is not a big deal. The plane is a dead stable traveller. And it will leave anything below an Arrow behind it.
Have a good chat with the group, look at the maintenance bills and costs in recent years and you'll get the idea.
Last edited by AN2 Driver; 23rd Sep 2013 at 02:54. Reason: factual error corrected
It's a fantastic little aircraft. I had a share in 'AW, a GY80-160 about twenty years ago. Also was canary yellow.
We also had a n**pty land ours gear up. Luckily, not written off.
PPS ours is just about to be written off group member forgot the above
Last edited by 500 above; 22nd Sep 2013 at 07:23.
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Sorry no true " The plane does not necessarily like crosswind due to the rather narrow gear" it has a higher cross wind recommend limit that PA28 / Warrior
The number of turns is 19 not 24 lower / raise the undercarriage / flaps
Sorry I have flown this type now for 500 + and i have just done 2 hours in a Warrior today same engine size so much slower.
So to keep it simple the engine is Ok and as ours looks like it will be written off spars will not be a problem for a while !!!!!!!
The number of turns is 19 not 24 lower / raise the undercarriage / flaps
Sorry I have flown this type now for 500 + and i have just done 2 hours in a Warrior today same engine size so much slower.
So to keep it simple the engine is Ok and as ours looks like it will be written off spars will not be a problem for a while !!!!!!!
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its fine in xwinds.
The only ones likely to complain are those talent limited idiots that say you can't land with max flap any of the other types.
Just with this one they don't have any option so make up some rubbish about it.
When they discover what the rudder pedals do they might change their minds.
The only ones likely to complain are those talent limited idiots that say you can't land with max flap any of the other types.
Just with this one they don't have any option so make up some rubbish about it.
When they discover what the rudder pedals do they might change their minds.
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When they discover what the rudder pedals do they might change their minds.
The CFI where I learned to fly used to say that he could always tell which examination candidates had learned to fly in a Cessna 152 (or 150) because they knew how to use their feet. He was never wrong.
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Don't know why you can fling those things at the deck and they will just make some rubbing noises as the legs flex a bit as the tyres sort themselves out and it will be none the worse for the experience. Try that in a straight legged aircraft like the PA28 and you will be looking at a large bill for tyres and bushes.
Thanks for the info re the xwind. Changed in my answer. Saw this comment on several articles about it. The only times I flew on one we didn't have any problems either but not much wind to play with so I took the word of some people for it who seem not to be up to speed.
Last edited by AN2 Driver; 23rd Sep 2013 at 02:53.
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Morning RyanRs,
I have owned a Horizon for several years. Reading through the string of comments above I hope you have distilled that it is a nice handling aeroplane with excellent visibility in the cruise and pretty good performance.
As far as maintenance is concerned the engine and associated bits are standard Lycoming so no problem but, as others have said, there were only about 270 airframes built and they are no longer supported by Socata to any practical degree so some parts can be difficult to source. There is some excellent help available from the owners club in France and also from some other owners here but you really need to be the sort of chap who likes to get involved in the aeroplane beyond just flying it. Rather like the classic car analogy; I drive an old Triumph and it's great to go out for a drive but I can equally spend a happy afternoon in the garage fiddling with the engine or suspension.
The rigging of the landing gear mechanism is critical and it needs to be done by someone who understands the system, ie not just any old engineer! There is a Service Bulletin (SB31) which is due every 100 hours (but I do mine annually or every 100 landings) which requires the aircraft to be jacked up and the rigging of the landing gear checked. It's not a big job but it must be done and done properly. If not the landing gear will collapse on landing - very expensive!! I discovered this the hard way as my maintenance was done by some charlatan of an engineer who did not actually do the job but just signed off the paperwork. The aeroplane was an insurance write off but I decided to rebuild it despite the additional cost because it's a great little aeroplane - I wouldn't have got all sentimental and spent extra cash on a PA28 or a Cessna, I'd have scrapped the machine, taken the insurance money and moved on. That tells you something about the GY-80.
No issue with cross-wind landings but the narrow track swing arm main landing gear does let it waddle from side to side which feels strange if you are used to a PA28; just use the ailerons!! You'll soon get used to the different feel
As you are talking about an established group I imagine the existing members are already well aware of all this. Id say consider whether you want an aeroplane that will get you from A to B and require no involvement from you other than turning up, putting fuel in and going flying or if you want to be more widely involved in the process. Next meet all the group members, are they "your kind of people"? Finally, fly the machine and see if you like it. After that the decision will become simple!
My Horizon flew its previous owner from UK to Australia so no question that its got good cross country capability!
Happy landings
3 Point
I have owned a Horizon for several years. Reading through the string of comments above I hope you have distilled that it is a nice handling aeroplane with excellent visibility in the cruise and pretty good performance.
As far as maintenance is concerned the engine and associated bits are standard Lycoming so no problem but, as others have said, there were only about 270 airframes built and they are no longer supported by Socata to any practical degree so some parts can be difficult to source. There is some excellent help available from the owners club in France and also from some other owners here but you really need to be the sort of chap who likes to get involved in the aeroplane beyond just flying it. Rather like the classic car analogy; I drive an old Triumph and it's great to go out for a drive but I can equally spend a happy afternoon in the garage fiddling with the engine or suspension.
The rigging of the landing gear mechanism is critical and it needs to be done by someone who understands the system, ie not just any old engineer! There is a Service Bulletin (SB31) which is due every 100 hours (but I do mine annually or every 100 landings) which requires the aircraft to be jacked up and the rigging of the landing gear checked. It's not a big job but it must be done and done properly. If not the landing gear will collapse on landing - very expensive!! I discovered this the hard way as my maintenance was done by some charlatan of an engineer who did not actually do the job but just signed off the paperwork. The aeroplane was an insurance write off but I decided to rebuild it despite the additional cost because it's a great little aeroplane - I wouldn't have got all sentimental and spent extra cash on a PA28 or a Cessna, I'd have scrapped the machine, taken the insurance money and moved on. That tells you something about the GY-80.
No issue with cross-wind landings but the narrow track swing arm main landing gear does let it waddle from side to side which feels strange if you are used to a PA28; just use the ailerons!! You'll soon get used to the different feel
As you are talking about an established group I imagine the existing members are already well aware of all this. Id say consider whether you want an aeroplane that will get you from A to B and require no involvement from you other than turning up, putting fuel in and going flying or if you want to be more widely involved in the process. Next meet all the group members, are they "your kind of people"? Finally, fly the machine and see if you like it. After that the decision will become simple!
My Horizon flew its previous owner from UK to Australia so no question that its got good cross country capability!
Happy landings
3 Point
Last edited by 3 Point; 23rd Sep 2013 at 08:25.
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Elevator 1
Having mothballed my GY80-180 for 10 years to fly an assortment of popular makes and models, DR10, C210, C182, Most PA's, just couldn't hold off any longer. With a fresh Annual, restored vibrant livery and renewed passion this ship is ever-ready to oblige with full Passenger, Baggage and fuel compliment for more exciting European trips. An exception amongst the successful !!!
Go for it
Elevator 1
Go for it
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gyjim,
Great to hear of another one back in the air! What's the registration (if you don't mind posting). I just bought another one which was written off in a gear up landing so I have a reasonable stock of parts now. Hope to keep mine going for many years yet!
Happy landings!
3 Point
Great to hear of another one back in the air! What's the registration (if you don't mind posting). I just bought another one which was written off in a gear up landing so I have a reasonable stock of parts now. Hope to keep mine going for many years yet!
Happy landings!
3 Point
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Hi 3 Point
EI-AYB. Would be familiar to some in Beige/Brown/Fawn livery. Gone white with red/gold embellish.
Would be interested to find out what UK Certification options are open for GY80. Have been informed UK is C of A Restricted
I understand France is on Permit only.
EI-AYB. Would be familiar to some in Beige/Brown/Fawn livery. Gone white with red/gold embellish.
Would be interested to find out what UK Certification options are open for GY80. Have been informed UK is C of A Restricted
I understand France is on Permit only.