Flying a Piper Archer into Clacton
Re landing - pick a point to land on - if the wheels are not on ground by said point then Go Around!
It all starts with deciding where you want to touchdown.
After Go Around when at circuit height do some fault analysis as to why it didn't work before.
Happy Landings!
It all starts with deciding where you want to touchdown.
After Go Around when at circuit height do some fault analysis as to why it didn't work before.
Happy Landings!
FBW
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It wasn't an Archer, and it wasn't Clacton. And the engine wasn't a Lycoming, which is what I was used to.
Private grass strip, rather short. Tall trees at each end. The grass strip, dry enough, and recently cut. But surrounded by turnips.
I am being coached by the co-owner of the Raleigh Minerva, who is sitting in the right hand seat. Made an acceptable takeoff and landing into the 5 knot headwind. So he suggested I try it the opposite direction, just to see how it felt.
With that slight tailwind, I was NOT a happy bunny that I could stop in the grass strip, so decided to go around. And shoved in the throttle.
The Franklin engine stopped immediately. We didn't. We trickled off of the remaining runway into the turnips, which were a bit soggy, so the Minerva, estimated speed, 5 mph, nosed down.
Why is it in one's most embarrassing moments that spectators appear out of nowhere? They did help us push the Minerva out of the turnips, and after washing the mud off the prop and other parts, the old Franklin decided to run. We couldn't find any damage whatsoever.
I never did become comfortable with the variable prop, or the Franklin, and so ended up with dearly beloved and reliable 150 Cub, G-OFER. From 1987 until 2012 we were very happy together. She now can be flown at White Waltham with the West London Aero Club. These days I am sticking to gliders, with a safety pilot. Anno dominos.
Private grass strip, rather short. Tall trees at each end. The grass strip, dry enough, and recently cut. But surrounded by turnips.
I am being coached by the co-owner of the Raleigh Minerva, who is sitting in the right hand seat. Made an acceptable takeoff and landing into the 5 knot headwind. So he suggested I try it the opposite direction, just to see how it felt.
With that slight tailwind, I was NOT a happy bunny that I could stop in the grass strip, so decided to go around. And shoved in the throttle.
The Franklin engine stopped immediately. We didn't. We trickled off of the remaining runway into the turnips, which were a bit soggy, so the Minerva, estimated speed, 5 mph, nosed down.
Why is it in one's most embarrassing moments that spectators appear out of nowhere? They did help us push the Minerva out of the turnips, and after washing the mud off the prop and other parts, the old Franklin decided to run. We couldn't find any damage whatsoever.
I never did become comfortable with the variable prop, or the Franklin, and so ended up with dearly beloved and reliable 150 Cub, G-OFER. From 1987 until 2012 we were very happy together. She now can be flown at White Waltham with the West London Aero Club. These days I am sticking to gliders, with a safety pilot. Anno dominos.
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That settles it
As a simple rule of thumb, if a Warrior will do it an Archer will do it with ease. An Archer is basically a Warrior with more horsepower.
Anyway, forecast says 10kt wind precisely across the runway at Clacton, so it looks like I'm taking my wife and kids somewhere else tomorrow. One of these days I'll go to EGSQ in a spamcan on my own first and check the lie of the land.
Thanks again for all the advice.
/h88
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I have an Archer II
Think you will get out OK using the POH short field technique - been a decade since I was last there and there were/are no obstacles.
Would be a little concerned about getting in and stopping if grass wet and there is a cross wind needing a few extra knots on the airspeed - so short field technique (be ready to go around) and when you do get down raise the flaps immediately - it has a huge effect on the braking on mine, really plants it on the ground.
Think you will get out OK using the POH short field technique - been a decade since I was last there and there were/are no obstacles.
Would be a little concerned about getting in and stopping if grass wet and there is a cross wind needing a few extra knots on the airspeed - so short field technique (be ready to go around) and when you do get down raise the flaps immediately - it has a huge effect on the braking on mine, really plants it on the ground.
Would you care to explain why a crosswind needs extra airspeed? I understand that without a headwind component you will have a higher groundspeed than if you had a headwind, but I don't understand why a cosswind should influence your CAS.
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The Archer 2 is about 70 pounds heavier than a Warrior which is accounted for by the bigger engine. So loaded weight is all that is significant and an Archer will lift more for similar landing and take off performance, or get better landing and take off performance for a reduced load.
Extra knots for a crosswind makes no sense unless it's gusting then a few extra knots is wise as it would be for a gusting headwind.
Extra knots for a crosswind makes no sense unless it's gusting then a few extra knots is wise as it would be for a gusting headwind.
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Clacton
Have been in many times in a PA-28-180 (SLAB WING)
No problems at all, just check that your POH, not sure about the the Archer but the earlier PA28 POH only give performance figures for flaps up take off and no figures for any other flap config for a short field T/O.
P.B.
No problems at all, just check that your POH, not sure about the the Archer but the earlier PA28 POH only give performance figures for flaps up take off and no figures for any other flap config for a short field T/O.
P.B.
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Would you care to explain why a crosswind needs extra airspeed?
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and when you do get down raise the flaps immediately - it has a huge effect on the braking on mine, really plants it on the ground
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Yep, that doesn't half help you stop ... but it throws away the go-around possibility
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Explainations
Higher Speed
On the higher approach speed - you will see from my previous comment I am a great believer in following the POH - in my Archer's POH Section 4.29 6th para "In high wind conditions especially, particularly in strong crosswinds, it may be desirable to approach ...... at higher than normal speed..."
No one is going to be worried about the 3mph crosswind - if it's a concern it is going to be windy, blustery and have some speed to it.
I have found this to be useful normally I approach at 86mph and aim for 75mph over the fence - with a crosswind I keep to the 86 approach but keep it all the way to the power to idle and flare transition; it just seems less "wobbly" and the rudder seems more effective (I am a crab and kick rather than a slip person).
My experience is of a very long runway and with winds typically 20/24kts landing on a 09 with winds out of 120 to 140; oddly, for the first time since I've had my plane last Wednesday I got "...clear to land 09, winds calm" - it was horrible felt really peculiar.
Dumping Flap
As soon as you're on the ground you should be in a full stall (this is a short field landing we're talking about here) - you're not on the ground until you will not be going around and you have decided to brake - a crucial parts of the short field braking procedure is to be folding the nose wheel off and dropping the flaps (the nose thing helps on bumpy runways and should always be done).
Dumping flap is more important in low wing airplanes than high wing due to the ground effect being more pronounced but the principle holds good anyway. Assuming you have dome your great greaser landing - at that point your airplane weighs next to nothing since a lot of the weight is being counteracted by the lift acting on the wings and the brakes are not that effective (I will not bother to explain the difference between weight and mass) - take the flaps up and the lift reduced and the weight of the airplane increases increasing the braking effect; holding the nose up helps braking by adding drag as compared to a nose down pitch.
The effects are not that great in absolute terms but that extra five or ten seconds of efficient braking makes all the difference - if you ever see an airplane run off the end of a runway is usually would have "...been OK if only the runway was another 50ft longer...".
Read the POH
The take off at sea level (it is Clacton!), short field (i.e. 25 degrees/two clicks of flap) 75F, no wind take of at around 2000lb (the max in mine is 2550lbs - so as you describe it I am thinking 2000/2100 lbs - is under 1,000 for a 50ft obstacle. Of course this is for a hard surface - grass that needs cutting and some undulations and it will add to the roll - but if you can get in you should be able to get out.
Landing same conditions about 1300ft (longer) - factor in some wet grass, a bit of a float past the threshold and things could get interesting.
Personally, as part of my "personal minimums" I do not attempt to land mine on less than 2000ft asphalt runways at present but in 1.6hrs time I will have passed my milestone at which I will review and then Montserrat and Mustique (see a special endorsement/training to land there) here I come
On the higher approach speed - you will see from my previous comment I am a great believer in following the POH - in my Archer's POH Section 4.29 6th para "In high wind conditions especially, particularly in strong crosswinds, it may be desirable to approach ...... at higher than normal speed..."
No one is going to be worried about the 3mph crosswind - if it's a concern it is going to be windy, blustery and have some speed to it.
I have found this to be useful normally I approach at 86mph and aim for 75mph over the fence - with a crosswind I keep to the 86 approach but keep it all the way to the power to idle and flare transition; it just seems less "wobbly" and the rudder seems more effective (I am a crab and kick rather than a slip person).
My experience is of a very long runway and with winds typically 20/24kts landing on a 09 with winds out of 120 to 140; oddly, for the first time since I've had my plane last Wednesday I got "...clear to land 09, winds calm" - it was horrible felt really peculiar.
Dumping Flap
As soon as you're on the ground you should be in a full stall (this is a short field landing we're talking about here) - you're not on the ground until you will not be going around and you have decided to brake - a crucial parts of the short field braking procedure is to be folding the nose wheel off and dropping the flaps (the nose thing helps on bumpy runways and should always be done).
Dumping flap is more important in low wing airplanes than high wing due to the ground effect being more pronounced but the principle holds good anyway. Assuming you have dome your great greaser landing - at that point your airplane weighs next to nothing since a lot of the weight is being counteracted by the lift acting on the wings and the brakes are not that effective (I will not bother to explain the difference between weight and mass) - take the flaps up and the lift reduced and the weight of the airplane increases increasing the braking effect; holding the nose up helps braking by adding drag as compared to a nose down pitch.
The effects are not that great in absolute terms but that extra five or ten seconds of efficient braking makes all the difference - if you ever see an airplane run off the end of a runway is usually would have "...been OK if only the runway was another 50ft longer...".
Read the POH
The take off at sea level (it is Clacton!), short field (i.e. 25 degrees/two clicks of flap) 75F, no wind take of at around 2000lb (the max in mine is 2550lbs - so as you describe it I am thinking 2000/2100 lbs - is under 1,000 for a 50ft obstacle. Of course this is for a hard surface - grass that needs cutting and some undulations and it will add to the roll - but if you can get in you should be able to get out.
Landing same conditions about 1300ft (longer) - factor in some wet grass, a bit of a float past the threshold and things could get interesting.
Personally, as part of my "personal minimums" I do not attempt to land mine on less than 2000ft asphalt runways at present but in 1.6hrs time I will have passed my milestone at which I will review and then Montserrat and Mustique (see a special endorsement/training to land there) here I come
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Clacton
Hi,
Just to supply some specifics on Clacton, where I learnt at a few years ago (and don't think much has changed since).
It's relatively short for normal GA types (C152/172/PA28) at 600m, but it's the environment of the airfield that creates the challenges:
1. It's a few hundred metres back from the shore, so has an onshore sea-breeze blowing most days. Trouble is, due to the curved coastline, this comes in as an easterly, but the runway is N-S.
2. In the evening, this situation might reverse or give more runway-orientated wind, but not guaranteed. Expect a crosswind of 5-15kt most flyable days.
3. Whatever the conditions, be ready for different winds at circuit height: Commonly a westerly drift of 10-20kt. This makes planning the descent onto finals worth thinking through. For many visitors, they only realise how this has caught them out when they end up high/low on finals or over-cooking a base leg.
4. There's no OHJ, so need to try and read windsock while on D/W or finals
5. Arrival on 18 is over several streets of houses. People usually come in directly on normal trajectory, but if I was coming in these days I might do a curved approach or deliberately slightly high until I was over the field on the undershoot. I once saw a display pilot arrive using falling-leaf approach on this runway, which is probably the way to really solve the worry! 18 runs slightly upslope and good surface (slight bumps once off runway) and drier than 36 end in the winter.
6. Arrival on 36 is over the sea. 'Nuff said. Engine out options on undershoot however, since there is a beach and golf course (which have been used for this purpose). Watch out for high-sided vehicles and the lamp-posts on very short finals. Have seen a biplane nearly come a cropper on a vehicle on 3rd approach to that runway. There is a slight hump at the 36 end.
7. They say you should go around if not down by half-way on either runway. I think if two wheels weren't firmly down by just before the footpath I would be going around.
8. Departure on 36 is toward those houses. The locally based pilots do an immediate left turn over the far field and head toward the sports centre in the distance. There are fields underneath you there in case of EFATO. When at holding point, you can't see much of the runway. Be prepared to stop before half-way point / footpath for any reason.
9. Departure from 18 is toward sea. On hazy day, may be no horizon. Is the preferred departure direction however due to better EFATO options.
10. There's a public footpath across middle of runway (which you can't see while at 36 start of T/O roll). This is used by the local oiks to play chicken with arriving/departing aircraft. Sometimes they just lay down in middle of it (clever people, you'd have to agree....)
11. In winter, it gets muddy, especially at 36 end, so be prepared to do run-up checks elsewhere on field and do rolling departure, not stopping once moved away from run-up area.
12. There are more benign dog-walkers around the field who may stand and gawp on the 18 undershoot, although they generally freeze and stand still but may be right in your round out area and may have to go-around because of it....
I saw several PA28's going in to Clacton without too many worries and there's even been twins, although I hear PA34's are not advised there, due to prop clearance concerns while taxying.
Yes, a right long list, but many people would say it is more tricky than some farm strips and I think the info in the flight guides doesn't cover some of the important things to know. It's a great destination, but it does bite (I saw two minor accidents and one possible bad one in a couple of months), so there's a reason many flying clubs won't allow you to go in there solo with their aircraft.
Think of it as a farm strip and do your precautions accordingly.
Great Oakley is another option nearby and much easier to operate in and out of and still near-ish the coastline.
Hope that helps
BFA
Just to supply some specifics on Clacton, where I learnt at a few years ago (and don't think much has changed since).
It's relatively short for normal GA types (C152/172/PA28) at 600m, but it's the environment of the airfield that creates the challenges:
1. It's a few hundred metres back from the shore, so has an onshore sea-breeze blowing most days. Trouble is, due to the curved coastline, this comes in as an easterly, but the runway is N-S.
2. In the evening, this situation might reverse or give more runway-orientated wind, but not guaranteed. Expect a crosswind of 5-15kt most flyable days.
3. Whatever the conditions, be ready for different winds at circuit height: Commonly a westerly drift of 10-20kt. This makes planning the descent onto finals worth thinking through. For many visitors, they only realise how this has caught them out when they end up high/low on finals or over-cooking a base leg.
4. There's no OHJ, so need to try and read windsock while on D/W or finals
5. Arrival on 18 is over several streets of houses. People usually come in directly on normal trajectory, but if I was coming in these days I might do a curved approach or deliberately slightly high until I was over the field on the undershoot. I once saw a display pilot arrive using falling-leaf approach on this runway, which is probably the way to really solve the worry! 18 runs slightly upslope and good surface (slight bumps once off runway) and drier than 36 end in the winter.
6. Arrival on 36 is over the sea. 'Nuff said. Engine out options on undershoot however, since there is a beach and golf course (which have been used for this purpose). Watch out for high-sided vehicles and the lamp-posts on very short finals. Have seen a biplane nearly come a cropper on a vehicle on 3rd approach to that runway. There is a slight hump at the 36 end.
7. They say you should go around if not down by half-way on either runway. I think if two wheels weren't firmly down by just before the footpath I would be going around.
8. Departure on 36 is toward those houses. The locally based pilots do an immediate left turn over the far field and head toward the sports centre in the distance. There are fields underneath you there in case of EFATO. When at holding point, you can't see much of the runway. Be prepared to stop before half-way point / footpath for any reason.
9. Departure from 18 is toward sea. On hazy day, may be no horizon. Is the preferred departure direction however due to better EFATO options.
10. There's a public footpath across middle of runway (which you can't see while at 36 start of T/O roll). This is used by the local oiks to play chicken with arriving/departing aircraft. Sometimes they just lay down in middle of it (clever people, you'd have to agree....)
11. In winter, it gets muddy, especially at 36 end, so be prepared to do run-up checks elsewhere on field and do rolling departure, not stopping once moved away from run-up area.
12. There are more benign dog-walkers around the field who may stand and gawp on the 18 undershoot, although they generally freeze and stand still but may be right in your round out area and may have to go-around because of it....
I saw several PA28's going in to Clacton without too many worries and there's even been twins, although I hear PA34's are not advised there, due to prop clearance concerns while taxying.
Yes, a right long list, but many people would say it is more tricky than some farm strips and I think the info in the flight guides doesn't cover some of the important things to know. It's a great destination, but it does bite (I saw two minor accidents and one possible bad one in a couple of months), so there's a reason many flying clubs won't allow you to go in there solo with their aircraft.
Think of it as a farm strip and do your precautions accordingly.
Great Oakley is another option nearby and much easier to operate in and out of and still near-ish the coastline.
Hope that helps
BFA
Last edited by betterfromabove; 3rd Sep 2013 at 12:36.
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I once saw a display pilot arrive using falling-leaf approach
