Aircraft down in Channel
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Well said, and the scale of the loss and anguish to his wife, family, friends and fellow pilots can be seen in them having already raised - in less than 2 days - over £10000 towards a private salvage expected to cost £10k per day, so it's a start.
Despite the AAIB's decision not to salvage the bulk of the aircraft and its pilot (so I guess their report will say "plane crashed, split into bits, sank off Dungeness, cause and pilot's whereabouts unknown"), the search for real answers and the collection will go on to bring Sascha home.
https://www.justgiving.com/local/project/findhim
Well said, and the scale of the loss and anguish to his wife, family, friends and fellow pilots can be seen in them having already raised - in less than 2 days - over £10000 towards a private salvage expected to cost £10k per day, so it's a start.
Despite the AAIB's decision not to salvage the bulk of the aircraft and its pilot (so I guess their report will say "plane crashed, split into bits, sank off Dungeness, cause and pilot's whereabouts unknown"), the search for real answers and the collection will go on to bring Sascha home.
https://www.justgiving.com/local/project/findhim
Last edited by Golf-Mike-Mike; 31st Jul 2013 at 10:43.
There have been quite a few light aircraft go down in the Channel in the last few years and the AAIB have not recovered any of them.
They would probably only be recovered if they were engaged in CAT.
Why should this be any different? (notwithstanding the hype of him being a banker, which wouldnt have raised an eyebrow a few years ago)
They would probably only be recovered if they were engaged in CAT.
Why should this be any different? (notwithstanding the hype of him being a banker, which wouldnt have raised an eyebrow a few years ago)
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@ UV
There are perhaps a few reasons to recover the pilot and wreckage:
(a) it's perhaps easier to say don't when you aren't the pilot's wife or family who have been left with a glimmer of poorly-founded hope that the pilot may still be alive given the police's "missing person" classification of the case
(b) and with evidence that the CAPS was pulled but there being no sight of the parachute, the conspiracy theorists (and police?) can naively make 2 & 2 make 5 and deduce the pilot escaped with it, despite it being attached to the heavier and stronger parts of the fuselage frame that sank. So how long would the police and Interpol string the family along ?
(c) to understand why yet another Cirrus (the supposedly ultra-safe GA best-seller) has gone down, apparently with the CAPS being activated. While the Cirrus is safer on average, it has a worse than average record for fatalities, so the FAA, CAA and Cirrus ought to want to know why that is
(d) it crashed in only 30-40m of water so hardly in a deep inaccessible trench
(e) other countries do recover wherever possible, eg the French, so we lack their funds and/or attitude.
When the privately-funded salvage gets underway, as it surely soon will, it will be interesting to see what the AAIB do or say about what is recovered. Can they claim unfettered access to the wreckage despite having given up on salvaging it ?
There are perhaps a few reasons to recover the pilot and wreckage:
(a) it's perhaps easier to say don't when you aren't the pilot's wife or family who have been left with a glimmer of poorly-founded hope that the pilot may still be alive given the police's "missing person" classification of the case
(b) and with evidence that the CAPS was pulled but there being no sight of the parachute, the conspiracy theorists (and police?) can naively make 2 & 2 make 5 and deduce the pilot escaped with it, despite it being attached to the heavier and stronger parts of the fuselage frame that sank. So how long would the police and Interpol string the family along ?
(c) to understand why yet another Cirrus (the supposedly ultra-safe GA best-seller) has gone down, apparently with the CAPS being activated. While the Cirrus is safer on average, it has a worse than average record for fatalities, so the FAA, CAA and Cirrus ought to want to know why that is
(d) it crashed in only 30-40m of water so hardly in a deep inaccessible trench
(e) other countries do recover wherever possible, eg the French, so we lack their funds and/or attitude.
When the privately-funded salvage gets underway, as it surely soon will, it will be interesting to see what the AAIB do or say about what is recovered. Can they claim unfettered access to the wreckage despite having given up on salvaging it ?
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GMM,
While I have the deepest sympathy for family and friends of Sasha, and am very surprised by the Police's 'missing person approach'. I doubt recovering the aircraft will provide any safety clues beyond what the AAIB will deduce from weather aftercasts, assessment of pilot experience and radar tracks.
Ignoring the police angle, I expect the AAIB will have a long list of solid pieces of data that boil down to 'loss of control in marginal VMC/IMC', just like the French concluded on the prior SR22 into the Channel.
Unless the police transpire to have some significant information not generally available, their behaviour seems very odd. On the other hand, if there is such information salvage may be very necessary to close out the case (hence a bit of surprise at how this aspect is playing out)
While I have the deepest sympathy for family and friends of Sasha, and am very surprised by the Police's 'missing person approach'. I doubt recovering the aircraft will provide any safety clues beyond what the AAIB will deduce from weather aftercasts, assessment of pilot experience and radar tracks.
Ignoring the police angle, I expect the AAIB will have a long list of solid pieces of data that boil down to 'loss of control in marginal VMC/IMC', just like the French concluded on the prior SR22 into the Channel.
Unless the police transpire to have some significant information not generally available, their behaviour seems very odd. On the other hand, if there is such information salvage may be very necessary to close out the case (hence a bit of surprise at how this aspect is playing out)
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I have been following this thread with great interest. It touches a nerve so close to home, having personally suffered an engine failure and subsequent ditching in the English Channel. I think there for the grace of God, I could have also gone!
Maybe I was lucky that I did not have a parachute, as my ditching was controlled all the way to splashdown, but saying that, a few have also been killed with no parachutes, so my guess now is that it all depends on how the dice is rolled.
The missing person hype and hysteria would automatically come as a result of "somebody" sticking the knife in and creating concern.
I recall at least 6 ditching's in the Channel, and each one has caused mayhem on the forums, mine being no exception.
I hope the salvage operation is able to give the family closure, and the AAIB an airframe to carry out there investigations.
Maybe I was lucky that I did not have a parachute, as my ditching was controlled all the way to splashdown, but saying that, a few have also been killed with no parachutes, so my guess now is that it all depends on how the dice is rolled.
The missing person hype and hysteria would automatically come as a result of "somebody" sticking the knife in and creating concern.
I recall at least 6 ditching's in the Channel, and each one has caused mayhem on the forums, mine being no exception.
I hope the salvage operation is able to give the family closure, and the AAIB an airframe to carry out there investigations.
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@ Jonzarno
Hi, the evidence of CAPS deployment came from one of the photographs of the wreckage found floating at the site. When CAPS is deployed, narrow channels housing the parachute lines are pulled away, leaving a primer-coloured stripe along the fuselage. These were evident on a piece of the wreckage. I can't find a way of enclosing a photo otherwise I could show you.
Whether the pilot deployed CAPS at altitude or too late, or if it was activated as a result of the impact with the sea is unknown. Either way, the chute canopy and lines haven't yet been found.
Hi, the evidence of CAPS deployment came from one of the photographs of the wreckage found floating at the site. When CAPS is deployed, narrow channels housing the parachute lines are pulled away, leaving a primer-coloured stripe along the fuselage. These were evident on a piece of the wreckage. I can't find a way of enclosing a photo otherwise I could show you.
Whether the pilot deployed CAPS at altitude or too late, or if it was activated as a result of the impact with the sea is unknown. Either way, the chute canopy and lines haven't yet been found.
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@ JetBlu
My guess on how the police got to where they seemingly are would be:
- pilot was a German investment banker, so synonymous in their eyes with .....?
- pilot's hobbies also included diving and sailing .... so he just swam away ?
- Russian wife .... so international intrigue ?
- no sign of the parachute coupled with ignorance as to how it would deploy and sink with the airframe .... so he snatched it and sailed happily down to a waiting boat ?
- no sign of Sascha so they have to keep an open mind but are leaving it to friends and family to recover the evidence to close this out, bizarre ?!)
My guess on how the police got to where they seemingly are would be:
- pilot was a German investment banker, so synonymous in their eyes with .....?
- pilot's hobbies also included diving and sailing .... so he just swam away ?
- Russian wife .... so international intrigue ?
- no sign of the parachute coupled with ignorance as to how it would deploy and sink with the airframe .... so he snatched it and sailed happily down to a waiting boat ?
- no sign of Sascha so they have to keep an open mind but are leaving it to friends and family to recover the evidence to close this out, bizarre ?!)
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@GMM
Yes, I understand the potential reasoning behind some thoughts, but for the authorities to make such a derogatory statement, based on pure speculation is nothing more than scandalous hype and hysteria.
I cannot imagine for one minute what Yulia, family and friends are going through.
As I previously said, "somebody" has put the knife in and twisted matters to suit there own agenda.
Anyway, let's all treat that with the contempt it deserves, and concentrate on more important issues.
https://www.justgiving.com/local/project/findhim
Yes, I understand the potential reasoning behind some thoughts, but for the authorities to make such a derogatory statement, based on pure speculation is nothing more than scandalous hype and hysteria.
I cannot imagine for one minute what Yulia, family and friends are going through.
As I previously said, "somebody" has put the knife in and twisted matters to suit there own agenda.
Anyway, let's all treat that with the contempt it deserves, and concentrate on more important issues.
https://www.justgiving.com/local/project/findhim
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Getting the Aviation Insurers to contribute to the recovery....
With N147KA probably having an insured hull value of approx US$275,000, the policyholders could request their aviation insurers to pay up to 10% to assist in the recovery of the wreckage. Hence, US$27,500 could be added to the fund. Better to commence the recovery attempt this month, before the Autumn weather starts in earnest.
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There are perhaps a few reasons to recover the pilot and wreckage:
As with any Govt Dept, the AAIB have come under severe cost pressures, and prioritised their work/costs. I know little of the circumstances of this accident, but am sure the AAIB will have decided if the costs of a search and recovery are likely to be well spent.
Let us suppose (and as I say, I know nothing about it), if there is enough circumstantial evidence that the aircraft was likely flown in a controlled manner into the sea, and at high speed, what is likely to be gained?
I am aware of another salvage operation some years ago where although the aircraft - visible at low water - was salvaged, the AAIB were very clear as to what costs were to be limited to. If that was exceeded, then abandon the salvage. Again a fatality.
NoD
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Please remember..
Whilst it is perfectly understandable that Sascha's family-members and acquaintances are affected emotionally by this incident, it should be remembered that, following an incident/accident/crime where it is believed that a life may have been lost, that soul is routinely and normally listed as missing until recovered. It seems that there is little evidence to support the notion that this case is being handled by the AAIB in any unusual, inappropriate or unfair manner. TP
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@talkpedlar
What utter diatribe! Statistics clearly demonstrate that no other ditching in the English Channel, North Sea or Irish Sea etc, with the expected loss of life, has seen a missing person/s so publicly broadcast with 72 hours of the incident, thereby creating all this hype and hysteria nonsense.
Show us the evidence to support your notion or beliefs that this is just standard practice. Remember, you can use any of the AAIB reports if you so wish.
As others have said, I would have also honestly expected the Insurance company to spend some money and assist the family etc with laying the pilot to rest. Instead, the family are suffering while the fundraising is in progress.
I think that we should be made aware who the insurance company is so we can all steer clear.
What utter diatribe! Statistics clearly demonstrate that no other ditching in the English Channel, North Sea or Irish Sea etc, with the expected loss of life, has seen a missing person/s so publicly broadcast with 72 hours of the incident, thereby creating all this hype and hysteria nonsense.
Show us the evidence to support your notion or beliefs that this is just standard practice. Remember, you can use any of the AAIB reports if you so wish.
As others have said, I would have also honestly expected the Insurance company to spend some money and assist the family etc with laying the pilot to rest. Instead, the family are suffering while the fundraising is in progress.
I think that we should be made aware who the insurance company is so we can all steer clear.
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I understand that the aircraft insurers have been approached, pointing to an explicit clause providing for salvage and recovery of the wreck and pilot. It's now with the underwriters.
Sascha was a flying friend of mine and dozens of others in FreeFlight and his family and work colleagues are devastated, so thanks to all who have posted here and on the Just Giving site with words of support, encouragement and offers of cash help. The salvage may well start this week but with a 3-day operation being likely his wife is still short of the required £30k by some margin.
Sascha was a flying friend of mine and dozens of others in FreeFlight and his family and work colleagues are devastated, so thanks to all who have posted here and on the Just Giving site with words of support, encouragement and offers of cash help. The salvage may well start this week but with a 3-day operation being likely his wife is still short of the required £30k by some margin.
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I think that we should be made aware who the insurance company is so we can all steer clear
Anybody know who they are?
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@GMM
You seem very close to the heart, and whilst I do understand the position that you are in, I may have correctly/incorrectly deciphered that the underwriters may be a leading Lloyd's syndicate, in which case, the brokers will be very renowned. If the brokers are whom I think they are, the amount of money outstanding for the salvage operation, which is ideally to take place within the next 3 days, is a drop in the ocean to them (pardon the pun) to contribute.
Name them here, and collectively I am sure we will all stand together.
On the other hand, and without wishing to start another Cirrus bashing thread (please don't) Cirrus has had more than it's fair share of aircraft falling out of the sky and coming down on parachutes. Why haven't they stumped up some money in this particular tragedy. The PR alone would stand them in good stead.
Finally, I did not know Sascha/family/Freeflight or anyone, but I truly feel for you all. FWIW I have posted the Just Giving link on the Flyer Forum in the hope that the flying fraternity there will also contribute.
FLYER Forums ? View topic - Aircraft missing - English Channel
Let's hope the next 24/48 hours produces some positive results.
You seem very close to the heart, and whilst I do understand the position that you are in, I may have correctly/incorrectly deciphered that the underwriters may be a leading Lloyd's syndicate, in which case, the brokers will be very renowned. If the brokers are whom I think they are, the amount of money outstanding for the salvage operation, which is ideally to take place within the next 3 days, is a drop in the ocean to them (pardon the pun) to contribute.
Name them here, and collectively I am sure we will all stand together.
On the other hand, and without wishing to start another Cirrus bashing thread (please don't) Cirrus has had more than it's fair share of aircraft falling out of the sky and coming down on parachutes. Why haven't they stumped up some money in this particular tragedy. The PR alone would stand them in good stead.
Finally, I did not know Sascha/family/Freeflight or anyone, but I truly feel for you all. FWIW I have posted the Just Giving link on the Flyer Forum in the hope that the flying fraternity there will also contribute.
FLYER Forums ? View topic - Aircraft missing - English Channel
Let's hope the next 24/48 hours produces some positive results.
Last edited by Jetblu; 6th Aug 2013 at 23:19.
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@GMM
Please don't take my advice the wrong way, but I believe you should change the target figure to £30K if you can, from what you have previously said.
People logging on to the link may just casually glance at the target, and compare to the actual, without reading the entire thread.
Just saying......
Please don't take my advice the wrong way, but I believe you should change the target figure to £30K if you can, from what you have previously said.
People logging on to the link may just casually glance at the target, and compare to the actual, without reading the entire thread.
Just saying......