Aircraft down in Channel

[JW411]

smartbrit:

I do indeed have previous experience of what happens when this sort of thing happens. I am glad that all of your group at least are safe and well.

[Contacttower]

The visibility and horizon have been very poor recently - I think we sometimes forget that the sun does not automatically bring good flying conditions.

I do not normally speculate on these threads but having flown across the channel yesterday I would not be at all surprised if some sort of distraction lead to a spatial disorientation and loss of control.

[fisbangwollop]

Mariner9

I always have 121.5 on box 2 over water/hostile terrain and would be straight over to that for a mayday call if working London Info.

Sadly that shows how little you know about how the system works.....if your in contact with London/Scottish info call Mayday on their frequency, within seconds your details will be relayed to D&D and help will be at hand........if you call blind on 121.5 the chances of being heard below 3000ft in certain parts of the UK may not be great! Even higher over parts of hostile Scotland.

[Contacttower]

Sadly that shows how little you know about how the system works.....if your in contact with London/Scottish info call Mayday on their frequency, within seconds your details will be relayed to D&D and help will be at hand........if you call blind on 121.5 the chances of being heard below 3000ft in certain parts of the UK may not be great! Even higher over parts of hostile Scotland.

Could you elaborate a bit more on how the receiving systems for the different stations are set up? I am just curious since I had always assumed that since D&D and London Info are in the same building they would have identical receiving power.

[fisbangwollop]

Contacttower.......yes they are in the same building but do not necessary use the same aerial reciever sites......what I am trying to say is that if you have made initial contact with London/Scottish hopefully a Mayday call to them will suffice to get the cavalry moving......a blind call to D&D may not even be heard if out of range of one of their reciever sites.

[John R81]

I have not yet made a MAYDAY call - hopefully never will have to. However, I have had 2 events where things began to go wrong mechanically and hence I developed an 'urgency' to get out of the sky. In both cases, I think I had my hands full trying to diagnose the problems, work around them, and get down safely. Being in contact with a BASIC service, I pulled the trigger and went with that (and the help I was given most, most, most gratefully received - track to nearest airfield, the way cleared for me, and cleared to land any surface with additional services rolled out to meet me - just in case).

When things get stressful and busy the idea of taking time to do something unnecessary - even swapping to box 2 - is unattractive as it adds to workload at precisely the wrong time.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Well of course. Always fly the aeroplane as no.1 priority (aviate, navigate, communicate in that order). If you don't, the rest is irrelevant.

However, being able to get out a call if you are going down into the sea could very much make the difference between being rescued or not. Making a call if you get an engine failure on take off is, however, wasting time you should be using to 'aviate' and get it on the ground safely.

We don't know what happened in this accident, but it could be that the pilot was too busy trying to prevent a crash to get on the horn and tell someone of his predicament.

[Golf-Mike-Mike]

Fortunately the SR22 Garmins make the choice of current station or 121.5 simple for a MayDay or Pan-Pan call. Either stay where you are or keep the frequency change knob depressed for a few secs and up pops 121.5

[John R81]

GMM

And selecting Box 3 for me (where I monitor 121.5) is one button push. However:

1. Additional thing to remember to do
2. Additional risk - did anyone hear you?

Sticking with the controller you are talking to is simpler, and they really do know their business. Let them help you.

Regards

John

[RTN11]

But if you're well out to sea, you probably wouldn't get a call picked up by either London info or 121.5.

Surely here the point of 121.5 is that there is likely to be some high level airline monitoring the frequency and could relay the message.

As above though it's unlikely the pilot made a mayday at all in this case, as he was probably busy trying to deal with whatever situation developed, but in other cases a mayday may be useful, and the choice of frequency could mean life or death.

[chrisbl]

As could being distracted instead of flying the aircraft. There is no one way and circumstances are usually different.

Of course to call a Mayday you need to recognise the situation you are in.

[thing]

Of course to call a Mayday you need to recognise the situation you are in.

Very true.

[Mariner9]

Sadly that shows how little you know about how the system works.....if your in contact with London/Scottish info call Mayday on their frequency, within seconds your details will be relayed to D&D and help will be at hand.

Thanks for the lesson FBW. No please teach me how to get a Mayday call in to London Info when there are 30 aircraft all waiting to get a call in for a BS and the winner is the fastest to the PTT button as soon as last transmission stops? If I squawked 7700 would London Info be aware it was someone previously working them and put out a broadcast for all a/c to STF up?

I'll stick with a radar unit (if there is one) or D&D in the south as my preferred Mayday provider thanks. Oop north, I would of course use you lot

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

London Info - Pan & Mayday

To be fair to London Info, they shut the BS traffic up quite quickly if they hear a Pan or Mayday.

I called Pan on frequency some years ago, having spotted a boat on fire in the Solent. I wasn’t actually talking to London Info previously, but they were remarkably quick in shutting up everyone else. In the end they handed me off to D&D to help with triangulation and location. This was before Swanwick, so it may be even quicker now.

[Fuji Abound]

Mariner9

Fair point, but in my actual experience just the mention of the word Mayday and everyone freezes.

A mayday, mayday, mayday almost certainly will cut the traffic dead and leave you plenty enough time to transmit a position report and any other information that may assist you.

[Mariner9]

I dont doubt everyone will shut up one mayday/pan etc is heard. The problem on a sunny weekend like the one just gone can be getting even a solitary mayday in edgewise. You've enough on your plate in an emergency without having to concentrate on jumping in first to the next break in transmission.

Thankfully, I've only had to call mayday once (smoke in cockpit on climb out), but that was working Cardiff tower so no problems getting call in.

[John R81]

M9 - here's how I would think of doing it - not had to try in practice. Radio messages are not that long, you just need everyone else in the queue to give you next turn.

Regardless of current radio traffic, squeeze PTT and say "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday .... [callsign]". Release PTT

Repeat as needed in rapid succession.

The current transmitting aircraft will not hear you whilst they are transmitting, and everyone else gets "2 at once screech". If current transmitting aircraft ends his message before you do, the word "Mayday" will be heard and everyone goes quiet for your next call. If not, by repeating the process everyone else on frequency knows that someone is desparate to break in and shortly the current transmitting aircraft will finish their message and you will break in.

Once in, you can deliver your message

[Fuji Abound]

John - exactly so, you beat me to it.

[dubbleyew eight]

if you are ever in a "situation" and have an epirb in the glove box activate the thing before you go in.

[Mariner9]

..or press the Com 2 button and transmit mayday to D&D straight away (unless there's a practise pan in progress, which suggests it's really not your day!)