Flying Legends - Who to send organisational feedback to?
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Flying Legends - Who to send organisational feedback to?
Looking back through old threads about Flying Legends there always seems to be a consistent complaint about the departure procedures for visiting aircraft and their lack of efficiency.
My experience was similar this year as it had been in the past. I do not need to list the issues because anyone who has flown in will probably know what I'm referring to.
My question is whether it is worth trying to send some feedback about it and if so who to do so to?
I don't want to just send a letter to a generic Duxford or Fighter Collection address with the hope it will get to the right person so I am hoping someone on here will see this thread who has the knowledge/contacts to more specifically answer my question.
My experience was similar this year as it had been in the past. I do not need to list the issues because anyone who has flown in will probably know what I'm referring to.
My question is whether it is worth trying to send some feedback about it and if so who to do so to?
I don't want to just send a letter to a generic Duxford or Fighter Collection address with the hope it will get to the right person so I am hoping someone on here will see this thread who has the knowledge/contacts to more specifically answer my question.
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Out of interest do you have issues from the Duxford show on 14th, rather than the 13th July?
I was departing on the 14th. I didnt think it was too badly organised. All of the F for Foreign pilot card holders went to their aircraft first, and then the remainder went through to the minibus, and then their planes. I was kind of lucky as I was near the front of that queue, and consequently near the front of the queue at the hold for departure.
On the 14th, someone (possibly the last of the F- registered aircraft) at the hold waiting to line up, had a stuck PTT button, or worse some person with a handheld was maliciously blocking all communication, and this did lead to 10 minutes or so wait until a marshaller came out and waved aircraft on to the runway to depart. I saw one aircraft, maybe 3rd of 4th in the queue manoevure such that I think he considered just lining up and departing while the F- reg a the hold just sat there, but he didnt.
My only issue was the marshaller wanted me to depart while the aircraft in front was rolling - I actually waited until he was properly airborne and safely into a climb. Then again, I was lucky being near the front, and not at the back. But that said, besides the dodgy PTT button I dont know what else Duxford could have done? Dual departures on hard and grass were prohibited, and I'd rather the system they had than let all pilots leg it across the field together in a race.
I was departing on the 14th. I didnt think it was too badly organised. All of the F for Foreign pilot card holders went to their aircraft first, and then the remainder went through to the minibus, and then their planes. I was kind of lucky as I was near the front of that queue, and consequently near the front of the queue at the hold for departure.
On the 14th, someone (possibly the last of the F- registered aircraft) at the hold waiting to line up, had a stuck PTT button, or worse some person with a handheld was maliciously blocking all communication, and this did lead to 10 minutes or so wait until a marshaller came out and waved aircraft on to the runway to depart. I saw one aircraft, maybe 3rd of 4th in the queue manoevure such that I think he considered just lining up and departing while the F- reg a the hold just sat there, but he didnt.
My only issue was the marshaller wanted me to depart while the aircraft in front was rolling - I actually waited until he was properly airborne and safely into a climb. Then again, I was lucky being near the front, and not at the back. But that said, besides the dodgy PTT button I dont know what else Duxford could have done? Dual departures on hard and grass were prohibited, and I'd rather the system they had than let all pilots leg it across the field together in a race.
Last edited by piperarcher; 18th Jul 2013 at 15:45.
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I too was stuck behind the aircraft with radio problems on Sunday.
I was intrigued to know how the ATCO decided who was at fault. He asked an N-reg to pull over and shut down, then a G-reg PA28 was told to do the same.
We weren't marshalled on to the runway though. In my view they should perhaps have made 2 aircraft line up together then dispatch them in turn.
We had a long trip home and got back fairly late. I would have appreciated an earlier departure and will try to sort that for next time.
I was intrigued to know how the ATCO decided who was at fault. He asked an N-reg to pull over and shut down, then a G-reg PA28 was told to do the same.
We weren't marshalled on to the runway though. In my view they should perhaps have made 2 aircraft line up together then dispatch them in turn.
We had a long trip home and got back fairly late. I would have appreciated an earlier departure and will try to sort that for next time.
I am with piperarcher really - been going for several years and its much the same and I really dont know what the answer is.
ATC were asking the classic wings aircraft to fly larger circuits to allow for departures.
The French Rallye with the ptt stuck on was more like 30 minutes though and I would have hoped that an ATC vehicle might have been despatched a bit quicker given the chaos .
I was tempted to shutdown , jump out and run over to him - then thought I would prob get imprisoned for no dayglo jacket or something ....
ATC were asking the classic wings aircraft to fly larger circuits to allow for departures.
The French Rallye with the ptt stuck on was more like 30 minutes though and I would have hoped that an ATC vehicle might have been despatched a bit quicker given the chaos .
I was tempted to shutdown , jump out and run over to him - then thought I would prob get imprisoned for no dayglo jacket or something ....
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I was there on the 13th. I agree that there is not much to be done with the actual ATC side of things...it is always going to be a bit chaotic considering the numbers involved.
What I might like to point out to someone involved in the organisation (and someone please tell me if Sunday was an improvement in this respect) is that the general process of getting people back to their aircraft was rather cumbersome.
For example they appeared to be using only three rather small minibuses to take people back to the aircraft, could they not have had more and larger ones? Or would it be possible to establish a walkway along the bank past the 24 threshold so that people could simply walk back if they wished?
I see the logic of letting foreign pilots go first but it would have been better if the place in which to queue had been better indicated and marshalled with a distinct line for the foreign pilots. On the Saturday many domestic pilots were unaware that foreign pilots were allowed to go first and a few tempers flared in the scrum that the queue became. As well as that the queue seemed to naturally establish itself in a spot that blocked the path of a number of vehicles that were attempting to pass. A few tapes, signs and perhaps a marshal to keep the queue in the right place would have helped this...
Overall the show was great as it always is but my experience this year might encourages me to drive in future...
What I might like to point out to someone involved in the organisation (and someone please tell me if Sunday was an improvement in this respect) is that the general process of getting people back to their aircraft was rather cumbersome.
For example they appeared to be using only three rather small minibuses to take people back to the aircraft, could they not have had more and larger ones? Or would it be possible to establish a walkway along the bank past the 24 threshold so that people could simply walk back if they wished?
I see the logic of letting foreign pilots go first but it would have been better if the place in which to queue had been better indicated and marshalled with a distinct line for the foreign pilots. On the Saturday many domestic pilots were unaware that foreign pilots were allowed to go first and a few tempers flared in the scrum that the queue became. As well as that the queue seemed to naturally establish itself in a spot that blocked the path of a number of vehicles that were attempting to pass. A few tapes, signs and perhaps a marshal to keep the queue in the right place would have helped this...
Overall the show was great as it always is but my experience this year might encourages me to drive in future...
Last edited by Contacttower; 21st Jul 2013 at 12:06.
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There were a hell of a lot of people in the queue complaining about folks 'pushing in'.
If it had been made clear that there was a reason for this, it would certainly have prevented some of the frayed tempers we saw!
I think one simple improvement would be more minibuses...
If it had been made clear that there was a reason for this, it would certainly have prevented some of the frayed tempers we saw!
I think one simple improvement would be more minibuses...
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On the Saturday many domestic pilots were unaware that foreign pilots were allowed to go first and a few tempers flared in the scrum that the queue became
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2013-04-18.pdf
Yes, I agree maybe bigger minibuses, or a system where those closer to the hold would be delivered first but I think that wouldn't necessarily be better. Certainly not for me as I had a late arrival slot and I was furthest away from the hold. I got to the queue early for that reason. Like anything with a queue or high demand, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
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It shouldn't just be foreign pilots. We had a Cub in our group trying to get back to Devon.
some of the French aircraft would have been home and in bed before him. Fortunately he decided to pass on the flight or he'd have arrived after dark
some of the French aircraft would have been home and in bed before him. Fortunately he decided to pass on the flight or he'd have arrived after dark
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When you went to the last table and were given your 'boarding card' thing, there was an opportunity to negotiate an early departure. The chap in front of us did it because he had to get all the way back to Nympsfield...
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Indeed... There was a hint of irony in that tale...
We chuckled because our journey back was (give or take) exactly the same distance as Nympsfield and it didn't even cross my mind to ask for special treatment!
The AIC document said that 'flight-planned flights take priority' - so there's your answer for next year
We chuckled because our journey back was (give or take) exactly the same distance as Nympsfield and it didn't even cross my mind to ask for special treatment!
The AIC document said that 'flight-planned flights take priority' - so there's your answer for next year
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The AIC document said that 'flight-planned flights take priority' - so there's your answer for next year
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Flying Legends Remarks
We had the pleasure of visiting Duxford's Flying Legends this year and had to return to Maastricht (Netherlands), a flight of around 2 hours and 15 minutes. We absolutely needed the priority shuttle service because any departure after 18:30 local Duxford time would put an arrival in daylight conditions in danger. We were unpleasantly surprised to see a rather large number of G-registered airplanes depart ahead of us and assumed they were heading of to Scottish destinations......
Three vans to take everybody across to the GA-parking was clearly insufficient. A larger number would have been appropriate. Even a coach with 50 or 60 seats could have done the job a lot better. And yes, why not create a footpath, clearly marked and separated from the runway area so that pilots can simply walk across the airfield to their airplanes.
As proposed earlier in this forum, the line-up at the check out should be separated into at least two lines, maybe even three... 1) Those travelling 250 nm or more 2) 100-249 nm 3) less than 100 nm...
Now, a completely different subject is the "speaker of the house". The main reason for visiting Duxford Flying Legends are the warbirds and watching them fly. Having to listen to a French speaker (who was absolutely knowledgeable and well informed) was appalling, to say the least. We love the British wit and humour and Flying Legends is the one opportunity to blend the Nations wit with its rich aviation history. Bernard is a humourless Frenchman who, most likely, did not make it to LPE level 4, unable to pronounce the most simple aviation term correctly (examples are his interpretation of the words propeller and fuselage) and a character who loves to listen to himself. Surely a Brit can do this job so much better with humour and wit and without the terrible accent that one may expect at La Ferté-Alais or at the Salon International de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace, but which is totally out of order at Flying Legends.
Three vans to take everybody across to the GA-parking was clearly insufficient. A larger number would have been appropriate. Even a coach with 50 or 60 seats could have done the job a lot better. And yes, why not create a footpath, clearly marked and separated from the runway area so that pilots can simply walk across the airfield to their airplanes.
As proposed earlier in this forum, the line-up at the check out should be separated into at least two lines, maybe even three... 1) Those travelling 250 nm or more 2) 100-249 nm 3) less than 100 nm...
Now, a completely different subject is the "speaker of the house". The main reason for visiting Duxford Flying Legends are the warbirds and watching them fly. Having to listen to a French speaker (who was absolutely knowledgeable and well informed) was appalling, to say the least. We love the British wit and humour and Flying Legends is the one opportunity to blend the Nations wit with its rich aviation history. Bernard is a humourless Frenchman who, most likely, did not make it to LPE level 4, unable to pronounce the most simple aviation term correctly (examples are his interpretation of the words propeller and fuselage) and a character who loves to listen to himself. Surely a Brit can do this job so much better with humour and wit and without the terrible accent that one may expect at La Ferté-Alais or at the Salon International de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace, but which is totally out of order at Flying Legends.
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Surely they could introduce a departure slot time similar to the arrival slots. Then everyone know where they stand.
It could be arranged in advance or when you book in.
It could be arranged in advance or when you book in.
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As proposed earlier in this forum, the line-up at the check out should be separated into at least two lines, maybe even three... 1) Those travelling 250 nm or more 2) 100-249 nm 3) less than 100 nm...
unable to pronounce the most simple aviation term correctly (examples are his interpretation of the words propeller and fuselage)
Surely a Brit can do this job so much better with humour and wit
I too, was critical , initially of the small mini buses. Alan ( man at departure gate - ) was open to suggestions to improve it and a larger bus was suggested by many. However , the smaller minibuses actually staggered the pilot delivery to aircraft , thus staggering and minimising the queues at the holding point so possibly a bigger bus wasnt going to help.
It would remove the initial queue which would be the best part
Departure slot times is prob the best improvement
It would remove the initial queue which would be the best part
Departure slot times is prob the best improvement
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I too, was critical , initially of the small mini buses. Alan ( man at departure gate - ) was open to suggestions to improve it and a larger bus was suggested by many. However , the smaller minibuses actually staggered the pilot delivery to aircraft , thus staggering and minimising the queues at the holding point so possibly a bigger bus wasnt going to help.
As others have said though staggered departure slot times would be best.
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It's a very good point actually.
Despite being in the last third of people to board a mini bus, we were only number two at the hold. It does a good job of naturally spreading out the departures.
Perhaps all that needs to be done is to make the queuing a bit less shambolic. Two separate queues - one for people who have flight plans or special dispensation, one for everyone else. And not in the middle of the road where fire engines and ambulances needed to be!
Despite being in the last third of people to board a mini bus, we were only number two at the hold. It does a good job of naturally spreading out the departures.
Perhaps all that needs to be done is to make the queuing a bit less shambolic. Two separate queues - one for people who have flight plans or special dispensation, one for everyone else. And not in the middle of the road where fire engines and ambulances needed to be!
