Having more than one instructor for PPL
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 532
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From: Wales
Adverse Yaw...
Hi, having had several instructors for both power aircraft and gliders, they all said that you should use some pro-rudder whilst in the turn, to prevent 'Adverse Yaw'.
However I was having a test flight in a large wing-span glider with an instructor, and we were flying in turbulent air, which was forcing each wing up in turn... I was correcting as best I could with the stick, but happened to mention that the Adverse Yaw was noticeable in this glider.
My Instructor said that I was not using enough (or any) rudder with the stick, and I explained that I was not turning but trying to maintain a S+L course.
So what he then said made some real sense.. He said that you need to apply the rudder as you move the stick, as it corrects for the difference in drag of the ailerons... Nothing to do with actually being in a turn, as the other 6 or 7 instructors had mentioned.
It's was just a slightly different way of looking at things, but much better to understand.
However I was having a test flight in a large wing-span glider with an instructor, and we were flying in turbulent air, which was forcing each wing up in turn... I was correcting as best I could with the stick, but happened to mention that the Adverse Yaw was noticeable in this glider.
My Instructor said that I was not using enough (or any) rudder with the stick, and I explained that I was not turning but trying to maintain a S+L course.
So what he then said made some real sense.. He said that you need to apply the rudder as you move the stick, as it corrects for the difference in drag of the ailerons... Nothing to do with actually being in a turn, as the other 6 or 7 instructors had mentioned.
It's was just a slightly different way of looking at things, but much better to understand.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 639
Likes: 4
From: Mare Imbrium
He said that you need to apply the rudder as you move the stick, as it corrects for the difference in drag of the ailerons... Nothing to do with actually being in a turn, as the other 6 or 7 instructors had mentioned
Adverse yaw will occur if the rudder/aileron inputs are not balanced while rolling into or rolling out of the turn ie while the ailerons are deflected to roll the aircraft. It doesn't happen while the turn is being maintained at constant bank angle. So you are right - its not to do with being in the turn.
(I'm ignoring more subtle effects like the need to hold-off or hold-on bank in the turn in some circs, when you would still need that little bit of balancing rudder).
In normal flying you should never move the ailerons without moving the rudder and vice versa. Its particularly important to get this right when flying in turbulence because if you dont get it right the nose of the aircraft wanders all over the place which increases your passengers' discomfort!
In gliders you'll find that a tiny bit of pro-turn rudder is needed while maintaining the turn to keep the piece of string in the middle, but this isn't the same as adverse yaw, its simply to keep the glider aligned with the changing direction of the airflow as the aircraft turns - powered aircraft need this too strictly speaking but you really only see the need for it in gliders where aerodynamic efficiency is so important.
Last edited by Heston; 27th June 2013 at 12:33.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
From: Lincolnshire
I have generally stuck with one FI throughout my 97 hours of training, and it is general club procedure in my club to stay with one FI through the course. This is great for continuity and you get to know each others ways and in my case become good friends too.
I have also flown with our CFI and two other FIs when my chap wasn't available. They each have their own ways, but all teach the same (although the CFI teaches MDR for Nav whereas my FI, although he has taught MDR to his military students, has taught me the Whizz wheel way as for those of us who are mathematically challenged, its much easier!!)
So I think its whatever suits you best or whatever yout FTO advise. But personally, I would stick with the same FI as much as possible.
I have also flown with our CFI and two other FIs when my chap wasn't available. They each have their own ways, but all teach the same (although the CFI teaches MDR for Nav whereas my FI, although he has taught MDR to his military students, has taught me the Whizz wheel way as for those of us who are mathematically challenged, its much easier!!)
So I think its whatever suits you best or whatever yout FTO advise. But personally, I would stick with the same FI as much as possible.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,113
Likes: 2
From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
In gliders you'll find that a tiny bit of pro-turn rudder is needed while maintaining the turn
Regarding instructors, I had three who were all excellent and all old timers relatively speaking. All ex mob flying instructors and sort of semi retired apart from one who flies for BA occasionally. Any good club will keep detailed records of each instructional flight and all the next instructor has to do is read up on what happend last time and which if any points need reinforcing.
Last edited by thing; 28th June 2013 at 19:24.





