PPL nav timepiece
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PPL nav timepiece
Hello all
First post so nice to "meet" you.
I have finally started nav for my PPL and my current wind up watch tends to lose time erratically. I have seen some other posts on this and am considering the following options:
Stopwatch Buy Boys' Sports LCD Stopwatch at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Children's watches.
Or
Watch
I am thinking with a bezel or an analogue/digital (for the minutes) and use the digital for the stopwatch
I want something simple and affordable so that I don't faff around with it and can focus on everything else. The stopwatch seems straightforward and cheap. Wondering if the watch is practical in case I punch the wrong button.
Thanks in advance, next exercise is on Saturday... Weather permitting !
Cheers
First post so nice to "meet" you.
I have finally started nav for my PPL and my current wind up watch tends to lose time erratically. I have seen some other posts on this and am considering the following options:
Stopwatch Buy Boys' Sports LCD Stopwatch at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Children's watches.
Or
Watch
I am thinking with a bezel or an analogue/digital (for the minutes) and use the digital for the stopwatch
I want something simple and affordable so that I don't faff around with it and can focus on everything else. The stopwatch seems straightforward and cheap. Wondering if the watch is practical in case I punch the wrong button.
Thanks in advance, next exercise is on Saturday... Weather permitting !
Cheers
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Stopwatch not really necessary for PPL nav just a wristwatch that is easy to read minutes. I find biggish dial analogue good esp mil style with minuite numbers around the outside.
Caber
Caber
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PPL nav timepiece
On the cessna i learnt in we had a leg timer which you can just reset at each point...no watch needed.
Although for my birthday 3 years previous i did get a seiko pilots watch with flight computer and separate stop watch built in (little red hands) ... Not needed it so far though
Although for my birthday 3 years previous i did get a seiko pilots watch with flight computer and separate stop watch built in (little red hands) ... Not needed it so far though
Last edited by Pilot.Lyons; 26th May 2013 at 20:14.
no watch needed.
An accurate watch is all that's required, the easier to read the better and if you need a stopwatch an analogue one is more intuitive than a digital one.
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Thanks all, that's really helpful.
I have a Laco (nice big dial, minutes clear and easy to read) which does the job except that it looses a few minutes here or there. It worked fine on the first nav but decided to fall 7 minutes behind just after I landed/refuelled. Probably needs a service after 6 years or I should have bought the more expensive model.
In any event, will look into the watch option or perhaps borrow my wife's jogging watch - hang on, there may be a GPS built into that?
Have a good bank holiday Monday if in the UK.
Corsican
I have a Laco (nice big dial, minutes clear and easy to read) which does the job except that it looses a few minutes here or there. It worked fine on the first nav but decided to fall 7 minutes behind just after I landed/refuelled. Probably needs a service after 6 years or I should have bought the more expensive model.
In any event, will look into the watch option or perhaps borrow my wife's jogging watch - hang on, there may be a GPS built into that?
Have a good bank holiday Monday if in the UK.
Corsican
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Which is exactly the wrong price bracket.
And as soon as you see "a watch for pilots" that's exactly what its not for PPL students.
Although to be honest the T10 is pretty good to be honest. Only thing I would say is a bit dodgy is that it is a wind up job. Better to have a solar powered battery watch. But then we are into citizen and again outside the ppl bit of kit price range.
If the OP wants to buy a watch for anything else apart from flying crack on and spend more money but if they want to just buy one to do the job it shouldn't be more than 10-15 quid.
And as soon as you see "a watch for pilots" that's exactly what its not for PPL students.
Although to be honest the T10 is pretty good to be honest. Only thing I would say is a bit dodgy is that it is a wind up job. Better to have a solar powered battery watch. But then we are into citizen and again outside the ppl bit of kit price range.
If the OP wants to buy a watch for anything else apart from flying crack on and spend more money but if they want to just buy one to do the job it shouldn't be more than 10-15 quid.
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Quote:
no watch needed.
As part of the PPL skill test the candidate is required to pass ETAs to the examiner for each of the turning points. A leg timer is of little use for that!
Oh forgive me, i mean no seperate stop watch!
Wow, im still shocked but cant ever think why, when i know what this place is like.
Some times a little common sense wouldnt go a miss in life, sadly it seems as though its not as "common" as we would like.
no watch needed.
As part of the PPL skill test the candidate is required to pass ETAs to the examiner for each of the turning points. A leg timer is of little use for that!
Oh forgive me, i mean no seperate stop watch!
Wow, im still shocked but cant ever think why, when i know what this place is like.
Some times a little common sense wouldnt go a miss in life, sadly it seems as though its not as "common" as we would like.
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Has to be the Breitling Navitimer which for £5720 is reasonably priced, personally I wouldn’t pay less than £3000 for a watch, remember it has to sit on your arm and show what the time is and can you really trust a watch less than £3000 to do that?
Only joking of course, the ones you have shown are fine, my last watch was from China on eBay for about £3 delivered, only lasted six months before all the plastic started falling off, still told me the time though. Got a Casio from Argos for about £15 now and that does the job fine, my students joke I went all upmarket!
Enjoy the Nav
Only joking of course, the ones you have shown are fine, my last watch was from China on eBay for about £3 delivered, only lasted six months before all the plastic started falling off, still told me the time though. Got a Casio from Argos for about £15 now and that does the job fine, my students joke I went all upmarket!
Enjoy the Nav
Last edited by Ty-Fry-Typhoon; 27th May 2013 at 08:52.
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PPL nav timepiece
Quote:
Has to be the Breitling Navitimer which for £5720 is reasonably priced, personally I wouldn’t pay less than £3000 for a watch, remember it has to sit on your arm and show what the time is and can you really trust a watch less than £3000 to do that?
Haha love it
Has to be the Breitling Navitimer which for £5720 is reasonably priced, personally I wouldn’t pay less than £3000 for a watch, remember it has to sit on your arm and show what the time is and can you really trust a watch less than £3000 to do that?
Haha love it
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Time
There are more Blingmaster Skygod watches on the market than you could imagine.
Despite having a watch fetish (I'm now up to 9 timepieces...) the most useful timepiece I've ever had for flying is this, the ASA flight timer:
Asa Flight Timer
Two separate timers means I run one constantly for fuel, and the second one measures different legs of any navigation.
You will need to time your legs during PPL training - you will use the leg time to confirm where you are at various stages along that leg, and confirm you are on time, before your next leg.
This timer also has a clock (12H, 24H and Zulu), as has been mentioned already it is time at turning points you will need to report.
Clips neatly onto a knee board, and does exactly what it says on the tin.
Old Ben
Despite having a watch fetish (I'm now up to 9 timepieces...) the most useful timepiece I've ever had for flying is this, the ASA flight timer:
Asa Flight Timer
Two separate timers means I run one constantly for fuel, and the second one measures different legs of any navigation.
You will need to time your legs during PPL training - you will use the leg time to confirm where you are at various stages along that leg, and confirm you are on time, before your next leg.
This timer also has a clock (12H, 24H and Zulu), as has been mentioned already it is time at turning points you will need to report.
Clips neatly onto a knee board, and does exactly what it says on the tin.
Old Ben
Oh here we go again! I give it less than a few hours before someone reports that he proudly wears a 'Mickey Mouse watch' that cost him 50p from a market trader in 1972 and thats all you need along with a Tesco carrier bag!
Interestingly those sort of people are called 'reverse exhibitionists', Hitler used that same technique by always wearing a very modest uniform so that he stood out amongst his flamboyant Generals like Goering!
Makes you just as bad as those you criticise for wearing 'bling'
Interestingly those sort of people are called 'reverse exhibitionists', Hitler used that same technique by always wearing a very modest uniform so that he stood out amongst his flamboyant Generals like Goering!
Makes you just as bad as those you criticise for wearing 'bling'
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Oh here we go again! I give it less than a few hours before someone reports that he proudly wears a 'Mickey Mouse watch' that cost him 50p from a market trader in 1972 and thats all you need along with a Tesco carrier bag!
Actually Tesco's bag's have gone down hill, the eco friendly reusable ones for a quid are pretty good though.
Seiko Solar for me or a Zulu hand eco-drive but nothing over 100 quid for work. We have 8 different ways of telling the time in the cockpit the easiest way is still looking at your wrist.
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I use my jogging digital hand timer (one of those things that has a little loop for your wrist) and just put the loop over the yoke. Nice big numbers and as you turn each leg you start another lap. As someone said, if you have a posh ADF box it has an elepased time jobber on it anyway.
Best thing is to use a form 20 and then you can use a GPS on your skills.
Best thing is to use a form 20 and then you can use a GPS on your skills.
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I ended up with a personal specification:-
1. Must be EASY to read. (Second reason - when away from home useful to have a watch that can be read in poor light in a hotel room at night, for example). So, black face, white hands and luminous.
2. For timing between check points, a rotating bezel is very useful - just zero it against the minute hand at one CP and read off the time in minutes from the bezel en route to the next.
3. Have a scratch resistant face - 'hardlex'?
I found a Swiss Army one which I've now had for 10 years. Cost about £60. Just needs a battery every 4 or 5 years, and shows little sign of wear. Even the plastic strap is still in good order. And it gains about 10 seconds a month. Good enough!
There's a 'happy medium' between the overpriced bling and the cheap & throwaway types.... You pays your money & takes your choice! (My father told me never to buy cheap tools - you just end up buying them twice. He was right.)
RF
1. Must be EASY to read. (Second reason - when away from home useful to have a watch that can be read in poor light in a hotel room at night, for example). So, black face, white hands and luminous.
2. For timing between check points, a rotating bezel is very useful - just zero it against the minute hand at one CP and read off the time in minutes from the bezel en route to the next.
3. Have a scratch resistant face - 'hardlex'?
I found a Swiss Army one which I've now had for 10 years. Cost about £60. Just needs a battery every 4 or 5 years, and shows little sign of wear. Even the plastic strap is still in good order. And it gains about 10 seconds a month. Good enough!
There's a 'happy medium' between the overpriced bling and the cheap & throwaway types.... You pays your money & takes your choice! (My father told me never to buy cheap tools - you just end up buying them twice. He was right.)
RF
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If you need a timepiece for mdr nav it needs to be easy to see and big enough to read.
1)Even with a sweep second hand a wristwatch satisfies neither of these as it is seldom possible to read the minutes.
2) It is on your wrist and therefore out of easy vision/scan.
3)The stopwatch buttons are almost invariably too small and fiddly to be satisfactory in practice.
4) operating it takes both hands out of action simultaneously which isn't the best of ideas.
If your aircraft doesn't have a suitable stop-clock/timer fitted (!) you may need a traditional 2 inch size stopwatch with a big, positive click action - preferably analogue for ease of reading mounted on your clipboard or on a mount on the yoke or panel. They cost probably under £40 new on ebay.
AGAT Vintage military Russian USSR pocket mechanical stop watch chronometer EXC | eBay
One of these, or similar is simply unbeatable for ease of use.
Accuracy simply is not an issue for practical purposes, even if it gained/lost 30 seconds an hour (it will be far, far better than that of course) it's more than accurate enough for nav.
Wristwatches are nigh on useless for nav, "pilot's" watches with those three tiny dials that are completely impossible to read accurately, if at all, are for posers and Walts. They are a waste of money.
I very much doubt any serious pilot uses one for real. Certainly in my 15,000hrs of very varied flying I've never once seen anyone use one. (No doubt I'll be bombarded with Typhoon pilots saying otherwise but I remain sceptical)
Those that sport the brick-sized bling variety tend to be PPLs and low hours rich-daddy pay-to-fly FOs. Or ex-fighter pilots - see line below. After all, everyone knows £50,000,000 fighters don't come with clocks...
Still, if you imagine it makes your willy look bigger...
Mickey Mouse for me! (seen several of those over the years - often on very experienced wrists)
1)Even with a sweep second hand a wristwatch satisfies neither of these as it is seldom possible to read the minutes.
2) It is on your wrist and therefore out of easy vision/scan.
3)The stopwatch buttons are almost invariably too small and fiddly to be satisfactory in practice.
4) operating it takes both hands out of action simultaneously which isn't the best of ideas.
If your aircraft doesn't have a suitable stop-clock/timer fitted (!) you may need a traditional 2 inch size stopwatch with a big, positive click action - preferably analogue for ease of reading mounted on your clipboard or on a mount on the yoke or panel. They cost probably under £40 new on ebay.
AGAT Vintage military Russian USSR pocket mechanical stop watch chronometer EXC | eBay
One of these, or similar is simply unbeatable for ease of use.
Accuracy simply is not an issue for practical purposes, even if it gained/lost 30 seconds an hour (it will be far, far better than that of course) it's more than accurate enough for nav.
Wristwatches are nigh on useless for nav, "pilot's" watches with those three tiny dials that are completely impossible to read accurately, if at all, are for posers and Walts. They are a waste of money.
I very much doubt any serious pilot uses one for real. Certainly in my 15,000hrs of very varied flying I've never once seen anyone use one. (No doubt I'll be bombarded with Typhoon pilots saying otherwise but I remain sceptical)
Those that sport the brick-sized bling variety tend to be PPLs and low hours rich-daddy pay-to-fly FOs. Or ex-fighter pilots - see line below. After all, everyone knows £50,000,000 fighters don't come with clocks...
Still, if you imagine it makes your willy look bigger...
Mickey Mouse for me! (seen several of those over the years - often on very experienced wrists)
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 29th May 2013 at 12:35.