IMC Rating - for emergency use only?

[CharlieDeltaUK]

There are folks who say the IMC rating is to help save your life if you unexpectedly get caught out. And there are folk who are happy to take off knowing that they will be in IMC for at least part of the route.

Putting aside conditions which are too bad (eg icing risk in aircraft without FIKI, cloud base marginal even for an instrument approach at the destination etc), what's the view prevailing among those of you with experience?

Seems to me (someone building on low experience) that one needs to stay current if the rating is to be effective, and the weather in the UK certainly merits having some extra capability, so judicious planned flight into IMC is not foolhardy.

Would your views be different if you had another pilot to help with workload in the right hand seat?

[echobeach]

I have to say that the single best thing about the Imc rating is to depart when there is an ability to leave the gloomy uk weather behind.
Climb up through clouds and sit there in the sun looking at the blue sky. Unlimited visibility. Warm sun. Cloudscape below.

I have used the rating to do this more times than I can remember.
It's the best thing I have done since ppl.
Use it. Practice. Stay current.

There is little point to hobby flying in cloud with no view.
There is every point to climbing through a thin cloud layer and enjoying the view.

The fact that if you end up in cloud you fly to an ils safely is the life saving bonus.

I think the Imc rating is one of the great bonuses to uk flying.

I am slowly doing my ir. but that's only to help with touring

[custardpsc]

If you leave aside the 'bad situations' you mention, well of course its relatively stress free to operate imc, but some of the skill and stress comes from avoiding getting oneself in those positions or having them creep up on you in the first place.. Just navigating and boring through stratus isnt so hard. Any imc rated pilot should be competent to get from a to b and shoot an ils to say 700ft agl assuming they are current, thats the scope of the rating and what is tested. Not sure a second person is of much more than moral support unless they can perform the duties of 'pilot not flying'.

Its more than a get you out of trouble thing, but also a license to learn and what to avoid.

Very glad I did it, if only for the confidence of dealing with inadvertent imc ( not that imc should be anything other than premeditated) and the extra nav and handling skills. On balance it has made me more cautious of weather, but more confident about dealing with it

[Pace]

Really I do not understand the question! It now appears that the IMCR will not be allowed in the UK and as such is dead and buried.
What point a new pilot setting out on that rating or even existing ones revalidating the rating using their money.
My advice is to hot shoe it to the USA for a couple of weeks and add an FAA IR where it looks like EASA will give you an EASA IR with ease I stress the words looks like ???

Pace

[tomtytom]

I have only just this last 2 weeks completed my imc course and yesterday got it added onto a new easa license as ir (r) my flight instructor told me using it as a get out of jail card is deadly as you will end up going imc usually at end of a trip unprepared and probably lacking practical currency. He said plan to use it as much as possible flying ifr even if its a cavok day. I plan to take a instructor friend back at base cloud bashing when its broken and build myself up to flying in solid overcast then hit patchy stuff solo. Also love the view when you breakout vmc on top. We are a very privileged group of people who can usually guarantee some sun im the uk.

Tom

[Fuji Abound]

Pace, do keep up , its not quite dead and buried yet and anyway for those with, it will morph into an irr, which is still an imcr but for the new name. It would seem the irr will stay with you for life, so while it maybe be dead and buried soon for the uninitiated its got life in it yet for others.

[Johnm]

Currency is all, a holder of an IMCR who is in current practice will probably perform better than a rusty IR holder. I had IMCR and used it to legal limits now have IR so I can fly airways and in Europe.

[S-Works]

My advice is to hot shoe it to the USA for a couple of weeks and add an FAA IR where it looks like EASA will give you an EASA IR with ease I stress the words looks like ???

You would...... Convince yourself that its going to be a simple swap to a EASA from a FAA one..... Not Your lifetime.

[BEagle]

Simples...???

My advice is to hot shoe it to the USA for a couple of weeks and add an FAA IR where it looks like EASA will give you an EASA IR with ease I stress the words looks like ???

Assuming you've first been through the process of obtaining a licence within which the FAA IR may be included and have subsequently gained 50 hrs of IFR flight time* as PIC of aeroplanes, then yes, the proposed conversion process should consist of the C-bM IR Skill Test during which the IRE will assess whether you have assimilated the relevant theoretical knowledge.

*That's PIC time as defined under EASA Part-FCL, of course.

Regarding use of the IMCR, the privileges of the rating are as stated in the ANO. There is no reference to 'get out of trouble' or any other urban myths.

AD 1.1-7 of the UK AIP states as follows regarding IMCR approach minima:

2.8.2 IMC Rating Holder in Current Practice

2.8.2.1 Pilots with a valid Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) Rating are recommended to add 200 ft to the minimum applicable DH/MDH, but with absolute minima of 500 ft for a precision approach and 600 ft for a non- precision approach. The UK IMC Rating may not be valid outside UK territorial airspace, therefore IMC Rated pilots should check the validity of their rating for the State in which they intend to fly. If the rating is not valid pilots must comply with the basic licence privileges, subject to the regulations of that State.

2.8.3 Pilots not in Current Practice

2.8.3.1 A pilot not in current practice should try to avoid having to make an instrument approach in bad weather. If pilots have to make such an approach, even if they are fully confident of their abilities, they are advised to add 100 ft to their calculated DH/MDH. Further increments should be added depending on when the pilot was last in full practice, and their familiarity with the aircraft, the procedure and the aerodrome environment.

[englishal]

TBH, it is not the approach that is the hard thing. If the needles are in the middle, why not come down to DH even if out of practice.
The hard bit is "descendandmaintain3000turnleft heading090interceptthe270degreeradialdirectVORcrossVORat3000 clearedfortheVOR25approachtraffic2oclocksamealtitudeopposite direction" which invariably happens all the same time

[piperboy84]

The hard bit is "descendandmaintain3000turnleft heading090interceptthe270degreeradialdirectVORcrossVORat3000 clearedfortheVOR25approachtraffic2oclocksamealtitudeopposite direction" which invariably happens all the same time

Just as a matter of interest, i am trying some instrument approaches on my FS and wondered do real world ATC try, or even give consideration when providing concurrent heading and altitudes changes that they be kept to a minimum and instead try, if the situation allows, to give descent instructions while maintaining a constant heading instead? which i assume will make for a lower pilot workload. Or is no weight given to that and its just "here is where you need to be at" and that's it.

I guess what i am asking is if ATC have perhaps a low time IFR guy trying to get on the ILS that sounds a bit shaky or is drifting from assigned heading /altitudes would ATC try and "nurse" him to the ILS with the minimum of turning climbs/descents?

[Fuji Abound]

BEagle

There is some sound advice there whatever the colour of your instrument rating - there are plenty with EASA IRs who would do well to add the feet.

Bose - I am surprised you are making predictions again. You may well be right, but, based on your past record, you may equally be on dangerous ground.

[mm_flynn]

Originally Posted by piperboy84

I guess what i am asking is if ATC have perhaps a low time IFR guy trying to get on the ILS that sounds a bit shaky or is drifting from assigned heading /altitudes would ATC try and "nurse" him to the ILS with the minimum of turning climbs/descents?

I think it depends a lot on where you are flying.

Around NYC (and I assume LA) you definitely get the heading, altitude, crossing limit, radial to intercept, next frequency, etc all in one burst. Somewhere like Lydd the controller will feed information one bit at a time. I think (but could easily be incorrect on this) that UK controllers are taught to not pass more than about two of new altitude, new heading, new speed, new frequency in the same transmission.

[Fuji Abound]

In the UK at least I think it depends on where. Undoubtedly at some airports expectation is that you "know" what you are doing however shaky you sound, at others you will get Fatherly attention.

However, I will say that most keep a pretty good eye on what you are getting up to, so if you end up departing from the procedure or clearly doing something stupid you will get a swift reaction, albeit from the sarcastic - "you were asked to report established" to "you appear to have passed through the G/S, what are your intentions".

Of course, don't rely on them get you out of trouble, far better to own up and in nearly every case you will then get all the Fathering you desire - if it goes horribly wrong at many places you will get a SAR or equivalent which is the least pressurised procedure on offer.

If the chips are down and you made it clear I suspect every where would give you gentle vectors onto the G/S and in fact with commercial traffic they are of course far more accustom to vectoring everyone - none of this procedure nonsense. If you want it slow and wide just ask to be positioned for a ten mile final! Weather is often the cause of the shakes and never be worried about asking for a 10 degrees left (or whatever) for weather - you will get vectored around weather all you like and there is no excuse for bashing through obvious CBs and down pours assuming they are evident. Even CAT avoid this stuff if they can and you only need to listen to the director on the "right" days to pick up on the deviations for weather.

[BEagle]

I certainly don't miss those 'machine gun' US ATC clearances! Listening to someone suffering one of those once, only to ask for it to be repeated twice, I was amused to hear an anonymous voice over the ether say "Speak fast? Speak twice!".

An EW Canberra crew once had one of those 'Let's see how fast I can talk' clearances delivered at General Hiram B Chickensexer AFB or wherever, concluded by "Readback". So they simply played back the recording they'd just made.....

[Local Variation]

Remember a very wise highly respected Instructor in the East Midlands region.

Q - 'Why do you always wear a tie when flying?'

A - 'So I know which way up we are flying when instructing in IMC'.