Pilot Fined Following Serious Infringement
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Pilot Fined Following Serious Infringement
Pilot fined after causing havoc over Stansted airport | Uttlesford village headlines
And didn't even have a current licence
And didn't even have a current licence
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And didn't even have a current licence
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I had an interesting 15 minutes or so on the ATC simulator at the CAA safety day at Duxford last weekend. Coincidentally it was set up to show a GA incursion into Stanstead airspace. It does cause havoc.
The cost in fuel alone in the a/c I had to shuffle around to maintain standard seperation would have been far more than the fine the guy had.
The cost in fuel alone in the a/c I had to shuffle around to maintain standard seperation would have been far more than the fine the guy had.
Last edited by thing; 18th Apr 2013 at 23:35.
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To be fair, probably a few thousand UK pilots were flying with lapsed licenses due to the 5-year expiry rule, which was not in most cases implemented with any sort of reminder.
In this case the CAA is still reaping the rewards for slagging off GPS for all those years, and for the flight training industry almost totally supporting them in it.
In this case the CAA is still reaping the rewards for slagging off GPS for all those years, and for the flight training industry almost totally supporting them in it.
Last edited by peterh337; 19th Apr 2013 at 09:22.
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Anyone can make a mistake but it is identifying and rectifying that mistake which is important.
He talks twaddle about flying the aircraft, navigate and finally communicate.
That maybe appropriate where there is a problem with flying the aircraft but his aircraft was fully functional albeit floating along in strong winds.
As for part 2? Navigate he obviously had no ability to do that wandering blindly through Stansted and Luton so that left part 3 communicate!!!
Having seen a major airport his priority should have been to communicate the fact that he was lost and in Stansted airspace.
In my eyes that was the priority threat and his no 1 priority.
Most disturbing is his inability to acknowledge any wrong doing and making it out to be a fuss about nothing.
He almost claims that his superior skills would have avoided any collision risk with another aircraft maybe travelling at 250 kts maybe popping out of the clouds in front of him?
What a Wally! piloting skills? he obviously does not have any.
Pace
He talks twaddle about flying the aircraft, navigate and finally communicate.
That maybe appropriate where there is a problem with flying the aircraft but his aircraft was fully functional albeit floating along in strong winds.
As for part 2? Navigate he obviously had no ability to do that wandering blindly through Stansted and Luton so that left part 3 communicate!!!
Having seen a major airport his priority should have been to communicate the fact that he was lost and in Stansted airspace.
In my eyes that was the priority threat and his no 1 priority.
Most disturbing is his inability to acknowledge any wrong doing and making it out to be a fuss about nothing.
He almost claims that his superior skills would have avoided any collision risk with another aircraft maybe travelling at 250 kts maybe popping out of the clouds in front of him?
What a Wally! piloting skills? he obviously does not have any.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 19th Apr 2013 at 10:08.
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"A separate offence of failing to carry secondary navigation equipment, including a transponder, which is required in controlled airspace, was taken into consideration."
I've been cleared through airspace without a transponder!
I've been cleared through airspace without a transponder!
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An important issue, AFAIC, is a complete lack of understanding of how radar/transponder works, and what the ATC procedures are in this respect. That either shows a lack of initial or recurrent training, or a lack of interest in what equipment is on board and what it's doing.
His decision to stay at a lowish altitude to stay out of the way of CAT was a sensible one, but apparently he was not squawking at all, or squawking mode A exclusively. What he did not know, apparently, was that ATC in that case only has a lateral position fix on the aircraft, not a vertical one. So ATC has to work on the assumption that the aircraft is at a "dangerous" level. If he would have had a transponder with altitude encoding (mode C or S) then ATC would have altitude information as well (unverified, though). I don't know the exact procedures that ATC has for dealing with an infringement that is squawking an unverified altitude, but I can imagine that ATC has a little more flexibility, compared to dealing with an unknown altitude.
His decision to stay at a lowish altitude to stay out of the way of CAT was a sensible one, but apparently he was not squawking at all, or squawking mode A exclusively. What he did not know, apparently, was that ATC in that case only has a lateral position fix on the aircraft, not a vertical one. So ATC has to work on the assumption that the aircraft is at a "dangerous" level. If he would have had a transponder with altitude encoding (mode C or S) then ATC would have altitude information as well (unverified, though). I don't know the exact procedures that ATC has for dealing with an infringement that is squawking an unverified altitude, but I can imagine that ATC has a little more flexibility, compared to dealing with an unknown altitude.
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Bloke clearly has no comprehension of how his actions affect everyone else. There is making a mistake and then there is negligence; this is the latter.
How well does he see and avoid other traffic coming at 250kts from his six o'clock?
PSA Flight 182 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I could see and avoid other traffic.
PSA Flight 182 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"A separate offence of failing to carry secondary navigation equipment, including a transponder, which is required in controlled airspace, was taken into consideration."
I've been cleared through airspace without a transponder!
I've been cleared through airspace without a transponder!
Last edited by Mariner9; 19th Apr 2013 at 10:33.
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In fairness the transponder thing is a bit irrelevant. If he never intended to be in the TMZ and didn't know that he was, then he could hardly be expected to have a transponder.
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In fairness the transponder thing is a bit irrelevant. If he never intended to be in the TMZ and didn't know that he was, then he could hardly be expected to have a transponder.
Instead, he used "I descended to 800 feet to stay out of the way" as an excuse. Which it isn't.
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What separation?!?!? There is none between VFR and IFR in Class D.
Or was he IFR?
Or was he IFR?
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What separation?!?!? There is none between VFR and IFR in Class D.
Or was he IFR?
Or was he IFR?
Last edited by wb9999; 19th Apr 2013 at 14:37.
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The separation requirement against unknown traffic inside controlled airspace is 5nm or 5000ft - the latter can only be applied if the infringing aircraft has a Mode C transponder, otherwise it has to be 5nm. This is why infringements can be so disruptive.
I liked the comment that it was only "sheer luck" that there had been no collision. Apparently see and avoid becomes impossible once you've established Class D airspace.
The reason collisions don't occur is because of layered safeguards. Each one is like a leaky bucket, but the small amount that leaks though one layer becomes miniscule after two of three more layers. Its ridiculous to believe that busting airspace leads directly to collision. What an unbelievably unsophisticated opinion.
Speaking as somebody who flies in controlled airspace almost continuously, I think an appropriate punishment for this violation is mandatory retraining, re-passing the relevant check ride, no fine.
The reason collisions don't occur is because of layered safeguards. Each one is like a leaky bucket, but the small amount that leaks though one layer becomes miniscule after two of three more layers. Its ridiculous to believe that busting airspace leads directly to collision. What an unbelievably unsophisticated opinion.
Speaking as somebody who flies in controlled airspace almost continuously, I think an appropriate punishment for this violation is mandatory retraining, re-passing the relevant check ride, no fine.
Last edited by Silvaire1; 19th Apr 2013 at 17:22.
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Its ridiculous to believe that busting airspace leads directly to collision
The reason collisions don't occur is because of layered safeguards
An aircraft with no transponder (and thus no TCAS protection) with a pilot who is lost (who presumably could climb at any time given the fact that he doesn't know he's in controlled airspace) and doesn't even consider the safest action of contacting ATC. What safeguards were left?
See and avoid against a B737 travelling at possibly 180Kts?
Last edited by Zorax; 19th Apr 2013 at 18:54.
See and avoid against a B737 travelling at possibly 180Kts?
Last edited by Silvaire1; 19th Apr 2013 at 19:06.