Anyone had smoke/fire in the cabin experience?
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Anyone had smoke/fire in the cabin experience?
Just watching that air crash investigation TV show where they featured a tragedy about a fire on a Swiss Air flight. I would be interested to know if anyone has had smoke or fire in the cabin of a small aircraft (spamcan etc.) and how did you dealt with it, and in retrospect if there is anything you would have done different. Or things that were learned from the experience
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Aye.
The beauty of a light aircraft is you can be on the ground pretty quick, providing the ground is forgiving.
Every incident is different. I departed a midlands airfield on a training flight, smell of "burning" and declared a pan and got lucky. As it happened 5000' down to a Easterly runway was just perfect, high speed approach, door open for fresh air, student briefed, gentle landing, runway vacated and a sharp exit. All great fun.
Aircraft had been in engineering prior to flight, battery terminals weren't tightened and were arcing against plastic cover.
The beauty of a light aircraft is you can be on the ground pretty quick, providing the ground is forgiving.
Every incident is different. I departed a midlands airfield on a training flight, smell of "burning" and declared a pan and got lucky. As it happened 5000' down to a Easterly runway was just perfect, high speed approach, door open for fresh air, student briefed, gentle landing, runway vacated and a sharp exit. All great fun.
Aircraft had been in engineering prior to flight, battery terminals weren't tightened and were arcing against plastic cover.
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The value of reading accident reports ...
Slight smell of burning in the cockpit on the climb out. Remembered a fatal accident where the pilot reacted to a smell of burning, shut down the engine, and crashed into houses ... unnecessarily, as it had been an electrical fire, not an engine fire.
So I did nothing immediately, and thought about it for a few seconds.
Then I shut off the cabin heat and opened the air vent ... I'd pulled the wrong knob (it was the middle of summer).
Slight smell of burning in the cockpit on the climb out. Remembered a fatal accident where the pilot reacted to a smell of burning, shut down the engine, and crashed into houses ... unnecessarily, as it had been an electrical fire, not an engine fire.
So I did nothing immediately, and thought about it for a few seconds.
Then I shut off the cabin heat and opened the air vent ... I'd pulled the wrong knob (it was the middle of summer).
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Don't panic! don't panic!!!!
Only engine fire I ever had was on the ground, Cessna 152 at WAP, my instructor overprimed a bit, and suddenly there was smoke curling up from the engine! He got out and grabbed the fire extinguisher, and told me to report it to the office, so I shut down the engine, turned off the switches and calmly (don't panic! ) walked into the office and announced "We have an engine fire."
It was like stirring up a wasp nest. Everyone started running around like mad.
Meanwhile my instructor had been handy with the extinguisher, the fire was out, and the engine steaming and sulking.....I was told off for shutting down the engine, seems that there is less damage if you run the engine, with an overprime event. What did I know?
Later in the cafe one of my gliding instructors told me "Don't worry about burning up a Cessna, Mary, there's plenty more....."
Only engine fire I ever had was on the ground, Cessna 152 at WAP, my instructor overprimed a bit, and suddenly there was smoke curling up from the engine! He got out and grabbed the fire extinguisher, and told me to report it to the office, so I shut down the engine, turned off the switches and calmly (don't panic! ) walked into the office and announced "We have an engine fire."
It was like stirring up a wasp nest. Everyone started running around like mad.
Meanwhile my instructor had been handy with the extinguisher, the fire was out, and the engine steaming and sulking.....I was told off for shutting down the engine, seems that there is less damage if you run the engine, with an overprime event. What did I know?
Later in the cafe one of my gliding instructors told me "Don't worry about burning up a Cessna, Mary, there's plenty more....."
I detected an unusual acrid smell in a PA28 on climb out from Cardiff in a PA28 which I thought could be a fire. Declared an emergency and got landing clearance, then master off, did a quick 180 and landed downwind (huge rwy so no issues). Completely forgot to close heater or open fresh air vents as I was so focussed on getting back down quickly.
Turns out the a/c had just had a replacement carpet fitted and the smell arose from the glue getting hot around the heater ducts.
Turns out the a/c had just had a replacement carpet fitted and the smell arose from the glue getting hot around the heater ducts.
Last edited by Mariner9; 12th Apr 2013 at 08:21.
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'did nothing'
Hi Guys,
I think Gertrude makes an important point.
I remember some years ago, reading an account of an emergency situation occurring aboard one of the Bell rocket aircraft; I think it was the X1.
The pilot, (I forget who it was, Everest, Crossfield or one of the other big US names of the time,) stated that when the problem occurred, he first took a second or so to think through what had happened and then what needed to be done.
His point was that there is usually no need for an instant reaction to a situation and a knee-jerk reaction might result in an even worse situation.
This is something I have tried to incorporate into my own attitude to flying emergencies, not that I've had any worthy of note.
Regards,
BP.
I think Gertrude makes an important point.
I remember some years ago, reading an account of an emergency situation occurring aboard one of the Bell rocket aircraft; I think it was the X1.
The pilot, (I forget who it was, Everest, Crossfield or one of the other big US names of the time,) stated that when the problem occurred, he first took a second or so to think through what had happened and then what needed to be done.
His point was that there is usually no need for an instant reaction to a situation and a knee-jerk reaction might result in an even worse situation.
This is something I have tried to incorporate into my own attitude to flying emergencies, not that I've had any worthy of note.
Regards,
BP.
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Unless you see flames, feel heat, or are burning.....DON'T PANIC....
We used to get engine fumes in the cockpit of one plane I flew. Used to always get a headache after a long flight and the odd smell. One day we brought a CO detector with us - an electric one - and after about an hours flight the thing went off, so we opened the vents and played the fresh air onto our faces until we landed. Turned out there was a belly pan on the AC which was removed for the annual, and when replaced it was meant to slide under under the front cowling. Except the engineers had it lipped OVER the front cowling. This meant that exhaust fumes from the exhaust pipe were getting in the small gap between the cowling and belly panel and hence under the floor and eventually over time the CO levels built up. Rectified that and the problem was solved...
I am always very dubious when I fly an aircraft straight after maintenance !
We used to get engine fumes in the cockpit of one plane I flew. Used to always get a headache after a long flight and the odd smell. One day we brought a CO detector with us - an electric one - and after about an hours flight the thing went off, so we opened the vents and played the fresh air onto our faces until we landed. Turned out there was a belly pan on the AC which was removed for the annual, and when replaced it was meant to slide under under the front cowling. Except the engineers had it lipped OVER the front cowling. This meant that exhaust fumes from the exhaust pipe were getting in the small gap between the cowling and belly panel and hence under the floor and eventually over time the CO levels built up. Rectified that and the problem was solved...
I am always very dubious when I fly an aircraft straight after maintenance !
My only advice is know your drills and know how to use the fire extinguisher. When did you last have a good look at how it works?
I also amazed by the number of aeroplanes than don't have a Carbon Monoxide warning sticker in the cockpit. They are very cheap and may save your life.
Finally, I am often amazed by the large number of pilots who start with the radio off. If the engine catches fire, then a Mayday call to the tower will hopefully despatch the fire tender quickly. Certainly quicker than if your radio is off. Anyway, you would be better off running away than turning on a radio to make a call. But a call, none the less, is vital.
I also amazed by the number of aeroplanes than don't have a Carbon Monoxide warning sticker in the cockpit. They are very cheap and may save your life.
Finally, I am often amazed by the large number of pilots who start with the radio off. If the engine catches fire, then a Mayday call to the tower will hopefully despatch the fire tender quickly. Certainly quicker than if your radio is off. Anyway, you would be better off running away than turning on a radio to make a call. But a call, none the less, is vital.
Last edited by sharpend; 12th Apr 2013 at 15:01.
But in answer to the question, yes in 50 years of flying I have had a few scares.
One such interesting fire was in a large passenger plane which I was the captain of. A stewardess had gone into the rear toilet and discovered the waste bin on fire. The previous passenger had popped in for a smoke and had destroyed the smoke detector so that he would not be discovered smoking.
I asked for the idiot to own up and of course no one did. So I had every passenger interviewed by airport police before they were allowed to disembark. The naughty man responsible was very quickly pointed out by the other irate other passengers
One such interesting fire was in a large passenger plane which I was the captain of. A stewardess had gone into the rear toilet and discovered the waste bin on fire. The previous passenger had popped in for a smoke and had destroyed the smoke detector so that he would not be discovered smoking.
I asked for the idiot to own up and of course no one did. So I had every passenger interviewed by airport police before they were allowed to disembark. The naughty man responsible was very quickly pointed out by the other irate other passengers
I also amazed by the number of aeroplanes than don't have a CO2 warning sticker in the cockpit.
Just to be pedantic, suggest that should be CO
Last edited by Mariner9; 12th Apr 2013 at 11:13.
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Finally, I am often amazed by the large number of pilots who start with the radio off.
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@ flyingmac....Sorry, oi larfed 
Don't know wether to blame the "incident" on the Instructor, or the manufacturer of a device that's not intuitive to use in an emergency.
"Feel like an emergency?- try the WHIZZBANG...it may alleviate the one you've got, or make it pale into insignificance, with the one you create.....WHIZZBANG....instant adrenaline fix, for when things get a bit routine! "
Don't know wether to blame the "incident" on the Instructor, or the manufacturer of a device that's not intuitive to use in an emergency.
"Feel like an emergency?- try the WHIZZBANG...it may alleviate the one you've got, or make it pale into insignificance, with the one you create.....WHIZZBANG....instant adrenaline fix, for when things get a bit routine! "
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The fumes from a released Halon extinguisher in the confines of a small cockpit will get you long before the fire does!
Get the aircraft on the ground immediately, forget the extinguisher whilst in the air!
I personally in my LAA machine refuse to carry one!....it is not obligatory.
Get the aircraft on the ground immediately, forget the extinguisher whilst in the air!
I personally in my LAA machine refuse to carry one!....it is not obligatory.
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Some years ago (having already got a PPL) I was just solo in a glider. Since it was a good day the instructor decided to give me a little soaring instruction.
One we were well away and relaxing the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke - which provoked a couple of seconds of consternation (along with trying to remember the fire drills I had learnt during my PPL course).
After a few more seconds I recalled 2 important facts:
As the glider was a tandem (like most) with the instructor behind me I hadn't spotted the lighting up sequence.
OC619
One we were well away and relaxing the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke - which provoked a couple of seconds of consternation (along with trying to remember the fire drills I had learnt during my PPL course).
After a few more seconds I recalled 2 important facts:
- I was in a glider - so the fuel off, mixture ICO, .... were all pretty useless
- Someone had warned me that, if we "got away", the instructor in question had a habit of lighting his pipe
As the glider was a tandem (like most) with the instructor behind me I hadn't spotted the lighting up sequence.
OC619
The fumes from a released Halon extinguisher in the confines of a small cockpit will get you long before the fire does!
References please if you do.
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Before they were outlawed, I had a "Redex" aerosol-type BCF (Halon) car-extinguisher actually mounted on the garage's MIG welder.....Many's the time a quick squirt put out underseal / seam-sealer / sound-deadening that had set on fire. The stuff disperses pretty quickly and I think , if you get some Gas-fitter's smoke-matches or pellets (Screwfix) and have a pax do the honours, i'd be staggered if your cockpit is as airtight and draught-free as you think.
It would be wise to notify a person in authority /fire/tower of your intended test, as the volume of smoke is pretty impressive for ~5-20 seconds!
Halon- very effective, CO2-good, but only avail. in bigger sizes.
Powder- waste of space foam/water OK if you can get in quick...in my experience, you need a big-enough one to chill petrol below it's flash-point...theoretically, it is not supposed to be for that.
Just my opinion....I'd go with Halon..you can always open a door/window to vent.
It would be wise to notify a person in authority /fire/tower of your intended test, as the volume of smoke is pretty impressive for ~5-20 seconds!
Halon- very effective, CO2-good, but only avail. in bigger sizes.
Powder- waste of space foam/water OK if you can get in quick...in my experience, you need a big-enough one to chill petrol below it's flash-point...theoretically, it is not supposed to be for that.
Just my opinion....I'd go with Halon..you can always open a door/window to vent.