PPL requirements confusion
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PPL requirements confusion
I took my first lesson towards PPL here in uk. The instructor asked me to book 4 hours for the next lesson where 3 hours would be spent on the theory i guess. and one hour on aircraft.
I want to know is this a requirement? I think I can prepare my self for the 7 written exams and can just sit them when I am ready. I thought the main requirement i min 45 hours flying. I want to go there to fly and not to read the theory with him
please guide me
I want to know is this a requirement? I think I can prepare my self for the 7 written exams and can just sit them when I am ready. I thought the main requirement i min 45 hours flying. I want to go there to fly and not to read the theory with him
please guide me
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There are 7 written subjects, and you will need to learn a lot of theory.
There is more to flying than just moving the controls for 45 hours. You need to learn how to plan a flight correctly, manage all the systems and fuel planning, and interpret weather forecasts and learn how to read the weather systems yourself.
If you go to a flying lesson with the attitude that you don't want any theory, you won't get very far at all. For you first proper lesson, 3 hours theory sounds a little excessive, I'd imagine the 4 hours would be 1.5 hours theory, break for it all to sink in, 30 min pre-flight brief, 1 hour flight, 30 min debrief. After that, lessons would probably be a two hour slot with just 30 min pre flight brief, one hour flight, 30 min de-brief.
On your first lesson there is a lot to take in, showing you the aircraft on the ground and what the controls are actually doing, and starting to familiarise you with what everything looks like so that in the future you can spot if it's broken or something is unusual. This all takes time, and the more exposure you have the better so get used to it.
After this first flight, you will probably be left to self study for the 7 written papers, getting any additional groudschool when not flying if required, not necessarily as standard, the pre-flight briefs will cover the lessons you will cover, as well as some of the theory required but certainly not all of it, so get your head in the books.
There is more to flying than just moving the controls for 45 hours. You need to learn how to plan a flight correctly, manage all the systems and fuel planning, and interpret weather forecasts and learn how to read the weather systems yourself.
If you go to a flying lesson with the attitude that you don't want any theory, you won't get very far at all. For you first proper lesson, 3 hours theory sounds a little excessive, I'd imagine the 4 hours would be 1.5 hours theory, break for it all to sink in, 30 min pre-flight brief, 1 hour flight, 30 min debrief. After that, lessons would probably be a two hour slot with just 30 min pre flight brief, one hour flight, 30 min de-brief.
On your first lesson there is a lot to take in, showing you the aircraft on the ground and what the controls are actually doing, and starting to familiarise you with what everything looks like so that in the future you can spot if it's broken or something is unusual. This all takes time, and the more exposure you have the better so get used to it.
After this first flight, you will probably be left to self study for the 7 written papers, getting any additional groudschool when not flying if required, not necessarily as standard, the pre-flight briefs will cover the lessons you will cover, as well as some of the theory required but certainly not all of it, so get your head in the books.
Last edited by RTN11; 19th Mar 2013 at 20:15. Reason: to sound less grumpy
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Thanks for the reply. I think I was not able to get my point across to you.
This is all very expensive so I wanted to confirm that I am not being lead to believe that I have to do the theory with the instructor for 3 hours this next week and again 2 hours the week after.
Am I right in assuming that 45 hours requirement doest not consist of just flying? it includes theory as well
This is all very expensive so I wanted to confirm that I am not being lead to believe that I have to do the theory with the instructor for 3 hours this next week and again 2 hours the week after.
Am I right in assuming that 45 hours requirement doest not consist of just flying? it includes theory as well
Am I right in assuming that 45 hours requirement doest not consist of just flying? it includes theory as well
No. 45 hours flying.
Minimum. Most people end up doing a bit more.
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I don't believe you should have to pay for any mandatory ground school. I certainly didn't.
I had a briefing before each flight, and a de-briefing afterwards. The rest was self-study.
Just to be clear, the 45 hours is flight time. Few people do it in 45 hours - expect it to take longer! You will obviously need the following in addition to this:-
1) Many, many hours of self-study for the exams
2) A quality briefing before each lesson
You need to find out if your school is trying to charge you for exam related ground school. This really should be optional as most people are capable of dealing with this themselves.
Clearly the briefings before each flight are not optional. My school did not charge for these, but I know some do.
The amount of ground school someone needs is clearly going to vary depending upon ability.
I had a briefing before each flight, and a de-briefing afterwards. The rest was self-study.
Just to be clear, the 45 hours is flight time. Few people do it in 45 hours - expect it to take longer! You will obviously need the following in addition to this:-
1) Many, many hours of self-study for the exams
2) A quality briefing before each lesson
You need to find out if your school is trying to charge you for exam related ground school. This really should be optional as most people are capable of dealing with this themselves.
Clearly the briefings before each flight are not optional. My school did not charge for these, but I know some do.
The amount of ground school someone needs is clearly going to vary depending upon ability.
Last edited by stevelup; 19th Mar 2013 at 20:39. Reason: Grammar
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If the instructor has asked you to book 4 hours as an intro with groundschool, there is a slim chance he may want to charge you for 1-2 hours of groundschool. Most schools would not charge for this, but having said that ex1 & 2 of the PPL are both ground exercises so I see no reason why they should not charge for them, your first flight was ex3 and you were happy enough to pay for that.
The normal way a school works is you pay for the flying time, which is taken from when you took the brakes off to when you set them again after the flight. So for a typical flight you would book a 2 hour slot, initially go in the classroom with the instructor for 15-20 mins for a brief on what you are about to cover in flight, then go out to the aircraft and spend 10 mins checking it and doing paperwork, fly for an hour, then 30 mins of debrief and paperwork.
In this two hour slot you would only pay for the time flown, whatever it is. I say 1 hours as this is typical, but if you only flew for 45 or 50, that's all you pay, same as if you fly for 1:20 that's what you pay.
As this is your first proper lesson, it is a bit of an exception with the additional groundschool, so your school may or may not charge, but all other pre-flight briefs should be included.
Any additional groundschool you request, for example if you specifically wanted some tuition on Air Law in your own time, I would expect this to be charged at £20-£25 per hour, after all the instructor has to make a living, and the school has to pay the electricity bill.
To be clear, the 45 hour minimum is flight time, not groundschool or any other tuition. Be aware that this is a very tight minimum, and a far more realistic figure is 55-60 hours.
The normal way a school works is you pay for the flying time, which is taken from when you took the brakes off to when you set them again after the flight. So for a typical flight you would book a 2 hour slot, initially go in the classroom with the instructor for 15-20 mins for a brief on what you are about to cover in flight, then go out to the aircraft and spend 10 mins checking it and doing paperwork, fly for an hour, then 30 mins of debrief and paperwork.
In this two hour slot you would only pay for the time flown, whatever it is. I say 1 hours as this is typical, but if you only flew for 45 or 50, that's all you pay, same as if you fly for 1:20 that's what you pay.
As this is your first proper lesson, it is a bit of an exception with the additional groundschool, so your school may or may not charge, but all other pre-flight briefs should be included.
Any additional groundschool you request, for example if you specifically wanted some tuition on Air Law in your own time, I would expect this to be charged at £20-£25 per hour, after all the instructor has to make a living, and the school has to pay the electricity bill.
To be clear, the 45 hour minimum is flight time, not groundschool or any other tuition. Be aware that this is a very tight minimum, and a far more realistic figure is 55-60 hours.
Last edited by RTN11; 19th Mar 2013 at 20:58.
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The first lesson is what we call an air experence flight. And its not meant o be very heavy.
The second lesson we go through paper work associated with the flight and aircraft. How to check the aircraft before flight. How to read the wx and notams and where to get them.
I would find out if they are charging for the 4 hours instructor time.
If they arn't and you only have to pay for the 1 hour flight you have found yourself a cracking school and a cracking instructor.
If they are intending you to pay for the 4 hours tell them that you will be taking your custom else where.
The second lesson we go through paper work associated with the flight and aircraft. How to check the aircraft before flight. How to read the wx and notams and where to get them.
I would find out if they are charging for the 4 hours instructor time.
If they arn't and you only have to pay for the 1 hour flight you have found yourself a cracking school and a cracking instructor.
If they are intending you to pay for the 4 hours tell them that you will be taking your custom else where.
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In this two hour slot you would only pay for the time flown, whatever it is. I say 1 hours as this is typical, but if you only flew for 45 or 50, that's all you pay, same as if you fly for 1:20 that's what you pay.
But regardless of the exact charging scheme: You are right to say the PPL is not cheap. It's best to spend a few minutes very early on with an instructor or admin person, and ask for a detailed explanation on how things are charged, and what the costs are going to be assuming you're a normal student and finish in about 55-60 hours flying time.
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So you've done exercise 3 - that was say 1 hour in the air and another hour of breifing and de-breifing - a 2 hour slot that you paid for as 1 hour of flight instruction.
I'd say your next lesson will be 2hours of ground school to cover the ground based exercises 1 and 2, charged at ground school rate, and another hour in the air with its breifing and de-breifing hour - which you will pay for as 1 hour of flight instruction. Total of 4 hours.
Thats how I do it anyway.
You can do all the theory learning for the exams yourself without any ground school, but I wouldn't advise it - best way is to do it mostly yourself with an occasional hour with the instructor to help you with bits you may find not so well explained in the books.
I'd say your next lesson will be 2hours of ground school to cover the ground based exercises 1 and 2, charged at ground school rate, and another hour in the air with its breifing and de-breifing hour - which you will pay for as 1 hour of flight instruction. Total of 4 hours.
Thats how I do it anyway.
You can do all the theory learning for the exams yourself without any ground school, but I wouldn't advise it - best way is to do it mostly yourself with an occasional hour with the instructor to help you with bits you may find not so well explained in the books.
Under the new EU rules the requirement for theoretical training is becoming more formal:
However that is achieved, it will involve more one to one instruction than we have previously seen. Instructors have shown little interest in the past because generally they are not paid for this work; something will have to change!
How many other people do you know who work for nothing?
An approved course shall comprise at least 100 hours of theoretical knowledge instruction. This theoretical knowledge instruction provided by the ATO should include a certain element of formal classroom work but may include also such facilities as interactive video, slide or tape presentation, computer-based training and other media distance learning courses. The training organisation responsible for the training has to check if all the appropriate elements of the training course of theoretical knowledge instruction have been completed to a satisfactory standard before recommending the applicant for the examination.
I don't believe you should have to pay for any mandatory ground school. I certainly didn't.
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How many other people do you know who work for nothing?
Especially as Instrutors already invariably give a lot of free advice,
guidance, help, even informal ground lessons (especially when the
weather is not flyable).
A school should, however, be upfront about the course(s) they offer
along with the transparent charging structure they use.
baz76
As the customer, you have already indicated, from some of your
earlier replies, that you don't even know what you are buying (what a
PPL course involves) - so how can you decide if the price is correct?
(You've probably asked more questions when buying a pair of shoes)
Before booking another lesson you should re-visit the school and ask
someone to explain exactly what is involved in your obtaining a PPL.
How it all fits together (theory, briefing, flying, etc) and exactly what,
and how much, they will charge for.
Also ask what other (non-school) costs you are likely to incur.
(Medical, away landing fees, exams, etc)
If possible, you should then visit one or two other schools and ask them
exactly the same questions.
You can then make a decision on whether to proceed with this "expensive"
course and with which school.
NB: Prices will likely rise during a course as fuel costs only seem to be
going up - but you should be informed of this before they are applied.
Check any bills you are given and query anything you are unsure of. If
something is included which hadn't been previously mentioned
(eg home landing fees) then, I suggest, you go to a different school.
Be very wary of paying money in advance in order to receive a discount.
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How many other people do you know who work for nothing?
What I meant was that you shouldn't be coerced into paying for ground school that you may not need.
I managed fine with the pre and post flight briefings which were included as part of the training. Assistance was available to me in terms of classroom study for the exams (for a fee, obviously) but I didn't need it.
I wasn't for a minute suggesting someone should work for nothing!
Not right now though...
It is interesting that those who offer proper groundschool training can make a good income from it whereas those who teach flying struggle to survive!
It is interesting that those who offer proper groundschool training can make a good income from it whereas those who teach flying struggle to survive!
Chatting about aircraft over a coffee can presumably be counted as 'theoretical instruction' under the pointless new €urorules....
Or will things descend into blatant commercialism, so that even a student asking an instructor how to use the NOTAM website can expect to be billed for 'professional services'....?
Chatting about aircraft over a coffee can presumably be counted as 'theoretical instruction' under the pointless new €urorules...
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I'd say your next lesson will be 2hours of ground school to cover the ground based exercises 1 and 2, charged at ground school rate, and another hour in the air with its breifing and de-breifing hour - which you will pay for as 1 hour of flight instruction. Total of 4 hours.
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GtW - yes that's what I meant. In effect the 4hour slot that he has been asked to book is two lessons - one non-flying to cover Exs 1 & 2 and one flying to cover Ex4.
The advice to ask for an explanation of the detail of the structure of the course, prices and so on, is spot-on. You're a customer FFS!
The advice to ask for an explanation of the detail of the structure of the course, prices and so on, is spot-on. You're a customer FFS!
Self-study worked for me.
Secondly, there's a limit to how much you can take in anyway, in one go. In my view, 3 hours is likely to be too long for a single session. It might be OK if it was broken by a flight in the middle.
Most flying instructors I've met are paid by the hour, and mine were paid the same for ground school hours and flying hours. When I said I wanted to go the self-study route, I suspect I disappointed one of the instructors. Profit margins in flying schools are quite tight, and in my school they would make about the same amount of money out of the ground school and flying components of the course. That said, they were quite accepting of me going the self-study route.
On the other hand, if I had the money to burn, I think I would have done well to spend it on the instructors. A good teacher enables most people to learn more in a shorter time than self-instruction.
Secondly, there's a limit to how much you can take in anyway, in one go. In my view, 3 hours is likely to be too long for a single session. It might be OK if it was broken by a flight in the middle.
Most flying instructors I've met are paid by the hour, and mine were paid the same for ground school hours and flying hours. When I said I wanted to go the self-study route, I suspect I disappointed one of the instructors. Profit margins in flying schools are quite tight, and in my school they would make about the same amount of money out of the ground school and flying components of the course. That said, they were quite accepting of me going the self-study route.
On the other hand, if I had the money to burn, I think I would have done well to spend it on the instructors. A good teacher enables most people to learn more in a shorter time than self-instruction.