PPL requirements confusion
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I don't think it would be 3 hours class room.
If you go through all the emergency stuff and aircraft paper work thats an hour.
Cup of coffee
Course description and intro to the lessons and ground school plan 30min.
A right good walk round lesson and sit in the machine and show where all the switches are. Then get them to do a walk round. Another 45 min to an hour.
Effects of controls brief 1 and 2, 20mins.
1 hour flying
15 min debrief and paper work completion filling in log book etc.
About 4 hours right enough.
If you go through all the emergency stuff and aircraft paper work thats an hour.
Cup of coffee
Course description and intro to the lessons and ground school plan 30min.
A right good walk round lesson and sit in the machine and show where all the switches are. Then get them to do a walk round. Another 45 min to an hour.
Effects of controls brief 1 and 2, 20mins.
1 hour flying
15 min debrief and paper work completion filling in log book etc.
About 4 hours right enough.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Thats what I am thinking, I think they are trying to rip me off. I noted the advanced bookings were driven by the instructor rather than the guy sitting in the office. I was under the impression that the actual flying and briefing / debriefing and self study is enough. I am not being arrogant but I am sure most of the stuff can be self studied.
When I asked my instructor, this is what he has responded.
your thoughts guys?
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Perhaps I should not have used the words ground school, although we tend to use this for any discussions on the ground. A better term would be pre-flight briefings for each of the Exercises required under the CAA syllabus.
At [Name of flying school] you pay separately for the instructor's time, whether it be for pre-flight briefings, or time in the air, and separately for the aeroplane, on a chock-to-chock basis (the time that goes in your log book).
The initial two hours is to cover the ground briefings for Exercises 1 to 5. The extra hour on the next lesson is to cover the practical aircraft checks (Pre Flight Inspections etc). After that we would expect to be able to cover both ground briefings (pre and post flight) and flying in each two hour slot, although there is likely to be be a different time charge for each - particularly for the early lessons.
When I asked my instructor, this is what he has responded.
your thoughts guys?
==================================================
Perhaps I should not have used the words ground school, although we tend to use this for any discussions on the ground. A better term would be pre-flight briefings for each of the Exercises required under the CAA syllabus.
At [Name of flying school] you pay separately for the instructor's time, whether it be for pre-flight briefings, or time in the air, and separately for the aeroplane, on a chock-to-chock basis (the time that goes in your log book).
The initial two hours is to cover the ground briefings for Exercises 1 to 5. The extra hour on the next lesson is to cover the practical aircraft checks (Pre Flight Inspections etc). After that we would expect to be able to cover both ground briefings (pre and post flight) and flying in each two hour slot, although there is likely to be be a different time charge for each - particularly for the early lessons.
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its 180 for the hour.
for my first lesson they charged me 147 . this included 35 minutes flying and the rest was briefiing
its £ 40 for instructor but the £ 180 includes aircraft hire, instructor, fuel, home landing fee
for my first lesson they charged me 147 . this included 35 minutes flying and the rest was briefiing
its £ 40 for instructor but the £ 180 includes aircraft hire, instructor, fuel, home landing fee
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So £140 for aircraft (what type?) and £ 40 for instructor.
How much does the instructor cost for the ground briefing.
£180 p/h flying sounds rather a lot, but it does depend on the type.
Edit: £147 for 35 mins is pretty shocking!
I've found the school you're learning from. There are alternatives - Panshanger charge £147 p/h, Andrewsfield £140 in a C152 (an £1800 saving.....) etc...
How much does the instructor cost for the ground briefing.
£180 p/h flying sounds rather a lot, but it does depend on the type.
Edit: £147 for 35 mins is pretty shocking!
I've found the school you're learning from. There are alternatives - Panshanger charge £147 p/h, Andrewsfield £140 in a C152 (an £1800 saving.....) etc...
Last edited by TractorBoy; 20th Mar 2013 at 21:28.
Thread Starter
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Here is their price list
Dual flights (2 seater) *£170.00Dual flights (4 seater) *£180.00Aircraft hire, 2 seater / 4 seater£130.00 / £140.00Instructor only (training in your own aircraft)£50.00Ground lessons£40.0I am doing it on a 4 seater
Dual flights (2 seater) *£170.00Dual flights (4 seater) *£180.00Aircraft hire, 2 seater / 4 seater£130.00 / £140.00Instructor only (training in your own aircraft)£50.00Ground lessons£40.0I am doing it on a 4 seater
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So the instructors are charging for the pre-lesson briefings at £40 p/h then? On top of £180 p/h for flying?
I'm with Mad_Jock.
I'm also rather surprised that you hadn't got this down in black and white so you knew exactly what you're getting for your money before you began training....
I also notice the website packages quote
45 hours JAR PPL dual instruction (£7650)
This is rather misleading as 10 hours have to be solo and should be charged minus the instructor £40 - unless of course they're being paid 40 quid to sit in the clubhouse drinking coffee while you're off soloing...
I'm with Mad_Jock.
I'm also rather surprised that you hadn't got this down in black and white so you knew exactly what you're getting for your money before you began training....
I also notice the website packages quote
45 hours JAR PPL dual instruction (£7650)
This is rather misleading as 10 hours have to be solo and should be charged minus the instructor £40 - unless of course they're being paid 40 quid to sit in the clubhouse drinking coffee while you're off soloing...
No, they're being paid £40 to sit in the clubhouse, drinking coffee and sweating profusely whilst you're out soloing. It's not something I ever begrudged them.
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Thanks for the response.
They chanrged me 147 in total for 1 hour that included 35 min flying and 25 minutes of briefing
You made a very good point about 45 hours ppl 7650
They chanrged me 147 in total for 1 hour that included 35 min flying and 25 minutes of briefing
You made a very good point about 45 hours ppl 7650
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45 hours JAR PPL dual instruction (£7650)
35 ground lessons (£1400)
7 written exams (£280)
PPL Student Groundpack (£170)
Purchased separately the above would cost £9500£855
35 ground lessons (£1400)
7 written exams (£280)
PPL Student Groundpack (£170)
Purchased separately the above would cost £9500£855
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So the instructors are charging................£40 p/h
No, they're being paid £40.........
The payment will not be anywhere close to what the student was charged.
If PPL instructors were paid £40/hour they would be very happy indeed.
This is another way of flying schools generating income to cover their costs;
and they certainly need to! Going bust serves nobody's interests.
The alternative would be to raise the aircraft hire rates.
All(?) flying schools quote a dual hourly rate for flight training - but why
should that also mean free briefings, free instruction in preflight & post engine
start checks, etc.
Free to student also meaning unpaid to instructor.
The dual rate (and possibly solo hire rate) may have been set to include
the above, but charging Instructor time and Aircraft time separately does seem
more sensible.
The devil is, as always, in the detail. Making sure everything is clear at
the outset, agreed and applied fairly (though stopwatch instructing is not
a good idea).
baz76
Close to London £170 ph dual in a 2-seater is not necessarily unreasonable.
Is there a reason your first lesson was in the more expensive 4-seater?
I believe I recognise the school from the price list you have given.
If so you are in luck: There are at least three other PPL training
organisations on the same airfield for you to conveniently visit for your
comparative shopping.
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You have to be careful when comparing hourly costs. You must understand the way the time is charged. Some charge for the block to block time, some for every minute the engine is running and others for time in the air plus a fixed allowance for taxy. The school I mainly work for uses the latter system, with a meter that switches on when the aircraft takes off and switches off when it lands. We add 0.2 (12 minutes) for taxy time. In my opinion this is the best way because it allows students to take as much time as they want for the taxy and power checks without being concerned about additional cost. This school does not charge for any briefing time.
Please be aware that there will soon be 9 exams, not 7. These exams will need to be passed in 6 sittings, with a sitting likely to be defined as three consecutive days.
Please be aware that there will soon be 9 exams, not 7. These exams will need to be passed in 6 sittings, with a sitting likely to be defined as three consecutive days.
