Twin Crashes at Fort Lauderdale Executvie Airport
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Twin Crashes at Fort Lauderdale Executvie Airport
No real information except for newscast. Twin Engine plane develops problems shortly after takeoff, advised tower attempted return, crashed killed three aboard. Much damage to cars on ground but not to people on the ground.
Hope you have details to post...wx seemed good.
Hope you have details to post...wx seemed good.
Reported variously as Piper PA31, Navajo and "twin-engined turboprop."
As you say - attempted return to airport after reporting engine trouble.
Hit trees and fence, crashed into parking lot of "repo" company, hitting cars (and a boat?! - only in Florida!) Crash site reported "near I-95" (east side of airport) which is heavily built-up, leaving no place for a straight-ahead landing attempt.
Actually, FXE is surrounded by urban sprawl in all directions, but to the north there are some golf communities with nice "grass runways" for an emergency.
As you say - attempted return to airport after reporting engine trouble.
Hit trees and fence, crashed into parking lot of "repo" company, hitting cars (and a boat?! - only in Florida!) Crash site reported "near I-95" (east side of airport) which is heavily built-up, leaving no place for a straight-ahead landing attempt.
Actually, FXE is surrounded by urban sprawl in all directions, but to the north there are some golf communities with nice "grass runways" for an emergency.
Last edited by pattern_is_full; 16th Mar 2013 at 00:18.
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Extremely sad to hear about, looking at the departure they were very limited with options to choose from in making a forced landing. some would say land I-95 with traffic but I doubt they would of made it and the result could of ended up with more fatalities on the Highway.
This is just a stark reminder for all us students studying out here in Florida (& the rest of the world) on always having a plan of action. Instructors drill it into us and its so bloody Important.
This is just a stark reminder for all us students studying out here in Florida (& the rest of the world) on always having a plan of action. Instructors drill it into us and its so bloody Important.
Last edited by seymoreskye; 16th Mar 2013 at 01:21.
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some reports indicate a cheyenne (turboprop) or a navajo (piston)...most indicated takeoff on runway 8.
a twin in the hands of someone not really SHARP at engine out operations can be a handful.
a turn back to the airport before safe flying speed, being trimmed up and fully in control can be tough.
Kudos to "pattern is full" for expressing possible use of a golf course for emergency landing. I selected my first airport of learning because of the golf course next to it (for emergency landings).
One method of returning to takeoff airport if winds are calm is to use a procedure turn to set you up for the reciprocal runway. done at a constant altitude until established inbound , one can be in a better , easier to control situation.
a twin in the hands of someone not really SHARP at engine out operations can be a handful.
a turn back to the airport before safe flying speed, being trimmed up and fully in control can be tough.
Kudos to "pattern is full" for expressing possible use of a golf course for emergency landing. I selected my first airport of learning because of the golf course next to it (for emergency landings).
One method of returning to takeoff airport if winds are calm is to use a procedure turn to set you up for the reciprocal runway. done at a constant altitude until established inbound , one can be in a better , easier to control situation.
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Flying in Florida, there are very few options for emergency landings - on land, that is, because of houses, orange groves and shopping centres, but there is often a lake handy.....so that could be a good plan ahead if you are thinking about what to do with an engine failure, if there isn't a golf course.
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I often wonder if the training for engine failure on LIGHT twins is really adequate or in fact correct.
We are taught to go for blue line and climb. The majority of light twins do not do a good job of climbing on one engine especially if its hot and heavy.
They do a good job of flying level on one engine and only you know the aircraft is at 200, 300, 400 feet.
The majority of airfields will take a 400 foot circuit and if terrain is bad chances are your stuffed level flight or climb engine out.
My advice is to try a different technique which is not to go for a blue line climb but to go for level flight in a direction which is obstacle free 30 degrees left or right of your heading.
As you establish level flight and level cruise speed step climb in tiny bits allowing a deterioration of 10 kts off your level cruise speed before maintaining the new height and allowing the speed to build back the 10 kts you have lost! Again step again even use the trim for the steps.
Once at a safe level then turn back to the airport.
With light twins the second engine is an option its up to you to judge the situation which maybe to close both engines and forceland. It maybe to establish blue line and climb especially if your light and cold. It maybe to ignore blue line and establish level flight.
If you do fly light twins do try the above! It is not the answer to all ills but does give you another option to the twin killer which is attempting to climb at all costs.
Pace
We are taught to go for blue line and climb. The majority of light twins do not do a good job of climbing on one engine especially if its hot and heavy.
They do a good job of flying level on one engine and only you know the aircraft is at 200, 300, 400 feet.
The majority of airfields will take a 400 foot circuit and if terrain is bad chances are your stuffed level flight or climb engine out.
My advice is to try a different technique which is not to go for a blue line climb but to go for level flight in a direction which is obstacle free 30 degrees left or right of your heading.
As you establish level flight and level cruise speed step climb in tiny bits allowing a deterioration of 10 kts off your level cruise speed before maintaining the new height and allowing the speed to build back the 10 kts you have lost! Again step again even use the trim for the steps.
Once at a safe level then turn back to the airport.
With light twins the second engine is an option its up to you to judge the situation which maybe to close both engines and forceland. It maybe to establish blue line and climb especially if your light and cold. It maybe to ignore blue line and establish level flight.
If you do fly light twins do try the above! It is not the answer to all ills but does give you another option to the twin killer which is attempting to climb at all costs.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 16th Mar 2013 at 09:59.
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On the theme of marginal performance on some twins, with one engine inoperative, I found this article to be very enlightening:
Always Leave Yourself An Out
Always Leave Yourself An Out
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I've myself started doing close to blueline rotation when I have the rwy. Shortfield, my old girl can easily lift off at around 50kts if pushed with two stages of flap, but that doesn't leave me any margin if one quits. Normal takeoff is around 70kts with one stage, but that's still below blue line. These days I keep her rolling a little longer and rotate around 80kts, which is close to blue line. This give me about a 15kts cushion to Vmc should anything happen at the very worst moment. That should be enough time to get things at least flying level as Pace mentioned.
On long(er) runways I delay rotation a bit. I also delay gear retraction as long as there is a realistic chance of landing on the remaining runway. Once that disappears, or I have to turn, then I select gear up (IAS at least Vxse, preferably Vyse). Selecting gear up is my decision point about attempting to continue if an engine stops.
On a short runway then gear up as soon as positive climb. The trade off for being able to use short runways is that period where being able to compensate for a lack of assymetric performance is compromised. A light twin is little different to a single in this case, except the remaining power may help to reach a better crash site.
On a short runway then gear up as soon as positive climb. The trade off for being able to use short runways is that period where being able to compensate for a lack of assymetric performance is compromised. A light twin is little different to a single in this case, except the remaining power may help to reach a better crash site.
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Tinstaafi
You make a good point about the lateral thinking required to fly light twins.
Holding the selection of gear up on long runways where you could land back is a good example.
I can remember flying a twin with a gear problem 120 nm for maintenance with the gear down. I elected to treat it as a single in event of an engine failure as I would not have got a climb.
Had the engine gone in the cruise with gear down I would have probably become a test pilot and noted the behavior of the aircraft engine out in the cruise with gear down before making a decision.
Pace
You make a good point about the lateral thinking required to fly light twins.
Holding the selection of gear up on long runways where you could land back is a good example.
I can remember flying a twin with a gear problem 120 nm for maintenance with the gear down. I elected to treat it as a single in event of an engine failure as I would not have got a climb.
Had the engine gone in the cruise with gear down I would have probably become a test pilot and noted the behavior of the aircraft engine out in the cruise with gear down before making a decision.
Pace
I had the gear fail to retract in a Kingair 200 last year. Was only two of us on board with some fuel so we continued to our destination thanks to still havng a reasonable performance reserve. Both the aircraft manager & the owner weren't happy with the maintenance mob from where we collected the plane (straight out of its annual, too!) so returning to that mob wasn't entirely desirable.
Last edited by Tinstaafl; 16th Mar 2013 at 19:00.
