Pressure Breathing
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
From: Amsterdam
Going back to the original question, about pressure breathing manually. In other words the objective is to raise the air pressure in your lungs significantly higher than ambient (and thus helping the transfer of O2 to your blood) by blocking your throat somehow and using your rib cage and diaphragm to pressurize your lungs. Hold this for a few seconds, exhale and inhale quickly and hold again.
I have never tried this to increase ppO2, but I have been taught this, combined with applying muscle tension strategically, as part of the straining technique to combat high Gs in aerobatics. All I can tell is that it is extremely tiring, and very bad things may happen if you get it wrong. (G-LOC for instance.) In aerobatics you only need this for a few seconds at a time. For a prolonged high-altitude flight without oxygen/pressure suit/pressure hull I would be very, very careful.
I have never tried this to increase ppO2, but I have been taught this, combined with applying muscle tension strategically, as part of the straining technique to combat high Gs in aerobatics. All I can tell is that it is extremely tiring, and very bad things may happen if you get it wrong. (G-LOC for instance.) In aerobatics you only need this for a few seconds at a time. For a prolonged high-altitude flight without oxygen/pressure suit/pressure hull I would be very, very careful.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 1
From: In the boot of my car!
It is a technique used by high altitude climbers probably confused over another type of pressure breathing you mention.
Maybe controlled breathing to maximize oxygen intake maybe a better description.
There is nothing wrong with controlled breathing uncontrolled breathing as in hyperventilating is far worse.
Scuba Diving we use controlled breathing to maximize bottom time and to use as little air as possible.
Yes this would be different again where you are maximizing oxygen intake in high altitude situations but I cannot see why it cannot improve matters.
Pace
Maybe controlled breathing to maximize oxygen intake maybe a better description.
There is nothing wrong with controlled breathing uncontrolled breathing as in hyperventilating is far worse.
Scuba Diving we use controlled breathing to maximize bottom time and to use as little air as possible.
Yes this would be different again where you are maximizing oxygen intake in high altitude situations but I cannot see why it cannot improve matters.
Pace
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
From: UK
It is a common technique in diving however I wonder if there are different reasons why it is so effective.
Diving often involves a degree of excitement, panic or a combination of both! Perhaps just like flying! So the diver breathes more rapidly (and even hyper ventilates). Breathing more rapidly simply means the air is gulped from the demand valve and not used efficiently. Hyper ventilation is a great deal more serious because it suppresses the normal level of C02 in the blood and counter intuitively constricts the blood vessels interfering with the transport of oxygen - all bad. (Pace I know you know this)
As we have rehearsed and in contrast at altitude the lungs gradually diminish in their ability to transfer oxygen; I dont see by holding the air in the lungs this will change anything. It is not that the pilot is trying to conserve air, after all it is not that it is in short supply, rather there is not enough oxygen in the air relative to the ambient pressure. Breathing rapidly clearly will make matters worse, and I would guess holding each breath a little longer might mean the oxygen available is better absorbed, but I would guess the difference is negligible. Pressurising the air clearly is beneficial but as the discussion has flowed it would seem this is very difficult to do in a controllable and meaningful way.
I still reckon fitness is the simplest way of improving matters. There is no doubt the fitter you are the more effective your lungs are at absorbing what oxygen is available and the better the body is at transporting the gases around the body (with the caveat as we have discussed that fittness and altitude resilience dont necessarily go hand in hand). I reckon if you want to operate at higher altitudes without oxygen get your weight down to recommended levels, do lots of aerobic exercise and of course quit smoking (if you do).
Diving often involves a degree of excitement, panic or a combination of both! Perhaps just like flying! So the diver breathes more rapidly (and even hyper ventilates). Breathing more rapidly simply means the air is gulped from the demand valve and not used efficiently. Hyper ventilation is a great deal more serious because it suppresses the normal level of C02 in the blood and counter intuitively constricts the blood vessels interfering with the transport of oxygen - all bad. (Pace I know you know this)
As we have rehearsed and in contrast at altitude the lungs gradually diminish in their ability to transfer oxygen; I dont see by holding the air in the lungs this will change anything. It is not that the pilot is trying to conserve air, after all it is not that it is in short supply, rather there is not enough oxygen in the air relative to the ambient pressure. Breathing rapidly clearly will make matters worse, and I would guess holding each breath a little longer might mean the oxygen available is better absorbed, but I would guess the difference is negligible. Pressurising the air clearly is beneficial but as the discussion has flowed it would seem this is very difficult to do in a controllable and meaningful way.
I still reckon fitness is the simplest way of improving matters. There is no doubt the fitter you are the more effective your lungs are at absorbing what oxygen is available and the better the body is at transporting the gases around the body (with the caveat as we have discussed that fittness and altitude resilience dont necessarily go hand in hand). I reckon if you want to operate at higher altitudes without oxygen get your weight down to recommended levels, do lots of aerobic exercise and of course quit smoking (if you do).
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 1
From: In the boot of my car!
Altitude.org | Why do low oxygen levels cause altitude sickness?
This is an excellent site for explaining things as well as having a calculator which is interesting for us flying types
Pace
This is an excellent site for explaining things as well as having a calculator which is interesting for us flying types
Pace
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
You could breath in. Hold it, then get a fat burd to sit on your chest. That would increase the partial pressure but slightly not pratical in flight.
I think you used to get elsticated chest straps years ago didn't you for high altituded?
I think you used to get elsticated chest straps years ago didn't you for high altituded?
