Runways... we don't need runways.
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Amazing 
Could just imagine what would happen if you did that on the M40, M1 or M25 in the UK 
Think of the media coverage you would get as well as the prosecutions?
Not sure even in Russia that they will get away with it? Maybe the landing but not a subsequent takeoff?
Pace
Could just imagine what would happen if you did that on the M40, M1 or M25 in the UK Think of the media coverage you would get as well as the prosecutions?
Not sure even in Russia that they will get away with it? Maybe the landing but not a subsequent takeoff?
Pace
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I've heard plenty of stories about the early days of microlighting in the UK, where when you needed fuel you landed in a field next to a petrol station to get some. I've also heard that this was the birth of Popham airfield, which does have rather an awkward approach due to the petrol station being there.
Never heard of anyone actually landing on the motorway itself though...
Never heard of anyone actually landing on the motorway itself though...
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During the construction of the M1 the chief engineer had an Auster that he used for site visits, landing on the finished part of the roadway. That all stopped once the road was opened to the public.
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Maybe someone can answer this ? Obviously a Microlight is not licensed or insured to operate on a public highway!
Hence the antics in this film would be illegal!
Looking at an aero car which could theoretically be licensed and insured to operate on a public highway what would the legal implications be of at 60 to 70 mph becoming an aircraft by rotating skywards?
Probably stupid question?
Pace
Hence the antics in this film would be illegal!
Looking at an aero car which could theoretically be licensed and insured to operate on a public highway what would the legal implications be of at 60 to 70 mph becoming an aircraft by rotating skywards?
Probably stupid question?
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 21st Feb 2013 at 19:32.
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Well isn't there a rule somewhere that says you can't take off / land unless you are the only thing on the runway (or ATC allows)?
And you probably need permission of the owner...
But other than that - surely a road could be treated as an unlicensed aerodrome?
So not for commercial / scheduled / instruction if you're over 2730kg / flight testing. And you are the only one on the "runway"...
And you probably need permission of the owner...
But other than that - surely a road could be treated as an unlicensed aerodrome?
So not for commercial / scheduled / instruction if you're over 2730kg / flight testing. And you are the only one on the "runway"...
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Regarding an aerocar, so long as it's taxed, MOTed, insured, roadworthy, and the driver/pilot holds a valid driving licence, it can be driven on a road.
At the moment you 'rotate skywards', you are no longer a car but an aircraft, so rules of the air apply. Thus you will also need a valid C of A, pilot's licence and be rated on the aircraft.
Regarding the transition between road and air, you are exempt from the 500' rule due to being in the process of takeoff or landing.
As mentioned above, all you would need is the permission of the Highways Agency (if a motorway or primary route) or the local council if a minor route.
And knowing the UK, this is probably where the stumbling block lies. Which means aerocars are really only ever going to be good for taking off landing at licensed aerodromes (or unlicensed, with the owner's permission), entering and exiting via the aerodrome emergency services entrance, performing the car/aircraft conversion somewhere in between.
Practicalities must also be born in mind... How many roads in the UK do you know that are wide/long/straight/uncrowded enough to accommodate takeoff/landing of something that's 30' wide? Not to mention driving it to the point of takeoff!
At the moment you 'rotate skywards', you are no longer a car but an aircraft, so rules of the air apply. Thus you will also need a valid C of A, pilot's licence and be rated on the aircraft.
Regarding the transition between road and air, you are exempt from the 500' rule due to being in the process of takeoff or landing.
As mentioned above, all you would need is the permission of the Highways Agency (if a motorway or primary route) or the local council if a minor route.
And knowing the UK, this is probably where the stumbling block lies. Which means aerocars are really only ever going to be good for taking off landing at licensed aerodromes (or unlicensed, with the owner's permission), entering and exiting via the aerodrome emergency services entrance, performing the car/aircraft conversion somewhere in between.
Practicalities must also be born in mind... How many roads in the UK do you know that are wide/long/straight/uncrowded enough to accommodate takeoff/landing of something that's 30' wide? Not to mention driving it to the point of takeoff!
I'm sure the Safety Elves wouldn't allow that these days!
Last edited by India Four Two; 22nd Feb 2013 at 07:05.
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A number of countries including Switzerland use motorways as emergency military runways but they close them.
I do not think you land or takeoff over the top of aunt Matilda on her sunday afternoon jolly up the M1
Pace
I do not think you land or takeoff over the top of aunt Matilda on her sunday afternoon jolly up the M1
Pace
The Draken and Viggen were designed specifically to operate off roads, and the latter had stretches built into them for just that purpose.
The Jaguar was designed for rough strip operations and the undercarriage could take quite a pounding I assure you from experience.
The Jaguar was designed for rough strip operations and the undercarriage could take quite a pounding I assure you from experience.
As I mentioned in the other thread on the same subject, its legal to land on roads in Alaska, Montana and some other places as long as its done safely. A recent magazine article described being stopped on an Alaskan gravel shoulder in a Mooney, waiting for weather to clear. After a while a police car happened by and stopped. Apparently they chatted for a while, then the cop said 'be careful' and went upon his way.
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Looking at an aero car which could theoretically be licensed and insured to operate on a public highway what would the legal implications be of at 60 to 70 mph becoming an aircraft by rotating skywards?
My gut feeling would be that your MOT, or car type certificate, or something like that, would somehow be invalidated or suspended once you've done the reconfiguration. That would mean that using an aero car in "airplane" configuration would be illegal on a public road.
Similarly, when the aero car is in "car" configuration, it would be illegal to use as an airplane. (Apart from the fact that in that configuration the laws of physics will probably prevent any sort of flight other than ballistic.
)As for the transition in between, I would estimate that the manufacturer would stipulate that this can only be done when the vehicle is parked with the engine shut off.
However, there are also proposals for a multi-fan hovering kind of aerocar, which looks like it would not need (extensive) reconfiguration to fly. The legal status of that one would be more dubious. But as it's more a helicopter than an airplane, it would not need to take off or land on a public highway anyway.
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Backpacker
You have a valid point! It would have to taxi and takeoff as an aeroplane and would have to be licensed as a road vehicle in that configuration.
The simple fact that the wings would be extended would probably preclude a road licence etc.
The next point would be insurance.
Obviously any aircraft in difficulty engine failure fuel problems etc can land on a road but its the refuel and subsequent takeoff again with a serviceable aircraft which would be a no no!
Pace
You have a valid point! It would have to taxi and takeoff as an aeroplane and would have to be licensed as a road vehicle in that configuration.
The simple fact that the wings would be extended would probably preclude a road licence etc.
The next point would be insurance.
Obviously any aircraft in difficulty engine failure fuel problems etc can land on a road but its the refuel and subsequent takeoff again with a serviceable aircraft which would be a no no!
Pace
I've known of two instances (since I've been flying) where forced landings on roads where it is otherwise prohibited to land were followed by repairs and flying out: once in a Mooney 201 and once with a Stearman. In the first case (in New York State) the pilot went to traffic court and was fined $1. In the second case (in California) the pilot wasn't cited. In both instances, the police closed the road temporarily because it was easiest way to move the aircraft.
In rural Mexico, particularly Baja California, until relatively recently it used to be the rule versus the exception to operate on roads but as the drug war ramped up it became an issue. Of course, with it being Mexico the rules are never exactly clear but when groups of heavily armed youths dressed in green show up, the message comes across loud and clear.
In rural Mexico, particularly Baja California, until relatively recently it used to be the rule versus the exception to operate on roads but as the drug war ramped up it became an issue. Of course, with it being Mexico the rules are never exactly clear but when groups of heavily armed youths dressed in green show up, the message comes across loud and clear.
Last edited by Silvaire1; 22nd Feb 2013 at 14:50.
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When I was a kid - must have been in the very early '70s - we were travelling up the M1 northwards approaching Leicester Forest services when a light aircraft flew over our car and landed on the northbound carriageway. Scared the bejesus out of my parents. I thought it was great. Cops showed up and the aircraft taxied into the services.
I think it was a Cessna - but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago.
Rateone
I think it was a Cessna - but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago.
Rateone
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We are not talking about an aircraft being forced to land because of technical problems and then maybe being flown out with the police closing the road to do so with permission from the authorities.
We are talking about a microlight landing onto a motorway with other motorists driving on that motorway taxiing in to a fuel bay refueling, taxiing back out onto a busy highway, finding a space in the traffic and taking back off!
Uk he would have the book thrown at him and would probably end up in jail for endangering the lives of other motorists.
The Captain of an aircraft can over ride any rules or regulations if he deems it in the interest of safety but obviously has to answer for his actions. I do not think picking up fuel and departing would work here
Pace
We are talking about a microlight landing onto a motorway with other motorists driving on that motorway taxiing in to a fuel bay refueling, taxiing back out onto a busy highway, finding a space in the traffic and taking back off!
Uk he would have the book thrown at him and would probably end up in jail for endangering the lives of other motorists.
The Captain of an aircraft can over ride any rules or regulations if he deems it in the interest of safety but obviously has to answer for his actions. I do not think picking up fuel and departing would work here
Pace
We are not talking about an aircraft being forced to land because of technical problems and then maybe being flown out with the police closing the road to do so with permission from the authorities. We are talking about a microlight landing onto a motorway with other motorists driving on that motorway taxiing in to a fuel bay refueling, taxiing back out onto a busy highway, finding a space in the traffic and taking back off! UK he would have the book thrown at him and would probably end up in jail for endangering the lives of other motorists.
In Russia (as in Mexico) I can imagine that the law would be 'flexible', ill-defined, or uninforced but there are locations where there is no ambiguity and aircraft can land on roads legally, as long as it done safely. I think I'd want somebody to keep people away from the prop, although in places like Alaska your average Joe is smart enough to know that!
Last edited by Silvaire1; 22nd Feb 2013 at 18:47.