Higher than POH speeds
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get three or four of these guys in a crew room on a bad weather day and who knows what they will invent next.
wheel, if they are zero to hero magenta line borgs who got rejected by ryanair.
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Learning to feel and fly a plane is much more important than memorizing and adhering to an SOP invented speed. In a 172, you can feel the plane well enough that reading the ASI is not required for a decent approach. If your instructor cannot teach you to feel a 172, there's a problem.
Adherence to an indicated airspeed would have been of no value during this flight.....
And the landing into my 2000 foot home runway was perfectly fine, with lots of room to spare....
Adherence to an indicated airspeed would have been of no value during this flight.....
And the landing into my 2000 foot home runway was perfectly fine, with lots of room to spare....
I cover up the airspeed on approach all the time with my students. Commecial students will do an entire circuit with the airspeed covered.
As for why you see the silliness described by the OP, well I think it is a reflection of the sad fact that flying schools tend to be little ghettos of inexperience where weird and silly ideas propogate in the absense of anyone in charge who has real world operating experience.
As for why you see the silliness described by the OP, well I think it is a reflection of the sad fact that flying schools tend to be little ghettos of inexperience where weird and silly ideas propogate in the absense of anyone in charge who has real world operating experience.
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My instructor does this too. Ditto with the altimeter in the circuit. If he thinks that I'm focussing on the instruments. He takes them away!
I think I've flown entire circuits where the only time I've looked at the instrument panel is to do my downwind checks. To be honest I always wondered if I was doing something wrong. It worried me that I could have flown for 5 minutes and not tell you what the altimeter or ASI actually said.
I think I've flown entire circuits where the only time I've looked at the instrument panel is to do my downwind checks. To be honest I always wondered if I was doing something wrong. It worried me that I could have flown for 5 minutes and not tell you what the altimeter or ASI actually said.
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As a cautionary tale about POH speed limitations;
Some time ago a very experienced pilot launched gliders with an Auster.
One day, gusty with lots of little cumuli about, perfect gliding weather, he released the glider, and started down to collect the next one. It being such a good day, there was a queue, he was in a hurry.
On the way down, his port wing folded upwards.
To slightly oversimplify what happened, for brevity; he was known to use a "trail" flap setting when descending fast from a tow. In an Auster, which had split flaps as I recall, this meant unlocking the (roof) lever from its UP position, but not locking it in the 1st flap position, so that the flap was loose and usually hung with aboiut a 3inch gap between its training edge and the wing's. But, in a gust, the weight of the flap lever locked it into the 1st flap position, much lower. He was now descending fast, unaware that he was exceeding the limiting speed for the flap, or rather, unaware that the flap had locked.
An Auster had a vertical jury strut between the main wing strut and the main spar. This was positioned exactly where the upward load on the main spar would be maximum in the 1st flap position, and was there to prevent the wing bending in an upturned U shape between the main strut and the fuselage. Exceeding the limit speed for that setting would overstress the jury strut.
However, he should have got away with it; there's always a margin for error.
Now Murphy took over. The aircraft, in its condition, ie going too fast for 1st flap, but probably not more than 5-10 Kts too fast, flew through a very strong gust, with a sudden momentary increase in airspeed, say 20Kts+. This applied a much stronger force to the jury strut, and it failed.
Murphy No 2 then struck. The fastening point of the main strut, at the fuselage end, was found to have had a bad weld repair from years before. It had not penetrated properly. So, with the main spar bending, without its jury strut, the load applied (probably twisting as well as pulling) to the main strut fastening broke it.
You could argue that the cause was the weld failure, but it would never have happened if the aircraft had been flown within its limitations.
All the above from memory; if anyone knows more or better please feel free to correct! I've long since lost the report.
Some time ago a very experienced pilot launched gliders with an Auster.
One day, gusty with lots of little cumuli about, perfect gliding weather, he released the glider, and started down to collect the next one. It being such a good day, there was a queue, he was in a hurry.
On the way down, his port wing folded upwards.
To slightly oversimplify what happened, for brevity; he was known to use a "trail" flap setting when descending fast from a tow. In an Auster, which had split flaps as I recall, this meant unlocking the (roof) lever from its UP position, but not locking it in the 1st flap position, so that the flap was loose and usually hung with aboiut a 3inch gap between its training edge and the wing's. But, in a gust, the weight of the flap lever locked it into the 1st flap position, much lower. He was now descending fast, unaware that he was exceeding the limiting speed for the flap, or rather, unaware that the flap had locked.
An Auster had a vertical jury strut between the main wing strut and the main spar. This was positioned exactly where the upward load on the main spar would be maximum in the 1st flap position, and was there to prevent the wing bending in an upturned U shape between the main strut and the fuselage. Exceeding the limit speed for that setting would overstress the jury strut.
However, he should have got away with it; there's always a margin for error.
Now Murphy took over. The aircraft, in its condition, ie going too fast for 1st flap, but probably not more than 5-10 Kts too fast, flew through a very strong gust, with a sudden momentary increase in airspeed, say 20Kts+. This applied a much stronger force to the jury strut, and it failed.
Murphy No 2 then struck. The fastening point of the main strut, at the fuselage end, was found to have had a bad weld repair from years before. It had not penetrated properly. So, with the main spar bending, without its jury strut, the load applied (probably twisting as well as pulling) to the main strut fastening broke it.
You could argue that the cause was the weld failure, but it would never have happened if the aircraft had been flown within its limitations.
All the above from memory; if anyone knows more or better please feel free to correct! I've long since lost the report.
Last edited by Capot; 29th Jan 2013 at 16:46.
Capot, thanks for that detailed account. It highlights the need to fly within limitations, as well as to be cautious with structural weld repairs.
A welding process, however much part of aircraft construction, is relatively hard to control and QA. Its not unlike building a composite aircraft structure - you are manufacturing the material as you make the part. Evaluate the maximum certified load on a wing strut (thousands of pounds) and I believe you'll be encouraged to be careful with maintaining and repairing them.
A welding process, however much part of aircraft construction, is relatively hard to control and QA. Its not unlike building a composite aircraft structure - you are manufacturing the material as you make the part. Evaluate the maximum certified load on a wing strut (thousands of pounds) and I believe you'll be encouraged to be careful with maintaining and repairing them.
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I used to fly a C185 jump plane. Obviously, they would like you back for the next load as soon as possible. So as to prevent shock cooling, my preferred descent method was some power on, flaps up, 2G 60 degree coordinated spiral all the way down. This would result in 130+ MPH indicated speed.
The first few times in the new old 185, I happily did this at 130 IAS. Then I began to notice that I was never flying with and IAS faster than 130 MPH. So I very carefully purposefully dove the plane progressively faster. It turned out that this particular 185 had an ASI which would not read any speed exceeding 130 MPH. I'm guessing that there was a damaged gear in the ASI. Needless to say, I grounded the plane, until an airworthy ASI was fitted - who knows how fast that plane had flown.
The first few times in the new old 185, I happily did this at 130 IAS. Then I began to notice that I was never flying with and IAS faster than 130 MPH. So I very carefully purposefully dove the plane progressively faster. It turned out that this particular 185 had an ASI which would not read any speed exceeding 130 MPH. I'm guessing that there was a damaged gear in the ASI. Needless to say, I grounded the plane, until an airworthy ASI was fitted - who knows how fast that plane had flown.
Commecial students will do an entire circuit with the airspeed covered.
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So do the PPLs chez nous. And the altimeter, VSI, horizon and AI. Actually, the horizon and AI spend a lot of time behind post-its
Last edited by ChrisA87; 30th Jan 2013 at 14:11.
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Actually, the horizon and AI spend a lot of time behind post-its
Last edited by BackPacker; 30th Jan 2013 at 14:21.
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But how and why would you cover up the horizon?
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Nah duct tape is better.
I discovered this when some one had done a temp repair on a seat and then a student with a hairy back in a T-shirt flew in it and then became stuck by the hairs on his back to the seat.
I nearly needed a new pair of trousers by the time we got on the ground.
I discovered this when some one had done a temp repair on a seat and then a student with a hairy back in a T-shirt flew in it and then became stuck by the hairs on his back to the seat.
I nearly needed a new pair of trousers by the time we got on the ground.
