Rules about a/c registration: where, if possible?
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Rules about a/c registration: where, if possible?
Hi all,
I apologize if the subject has already been touched in other threads, I made a search but could not find useful infos.
As some of you know, I am in the process of purchasing my first aircraft.
I heard many stories about how useful and money saving would be registering the airplane in a Country different from the one where I live (BeNeLux). Sincerely I do not have clear ideas at this regard:
would it be possible to register -legally- the plane in a different Country?
if so: which Country do you think grants the best conditions in terms of taxes, bureaucracy efficiency and/or costs of maintenance?
Any answers appreciated.
Cheers.
ZN
I apologize if the subject has already been touched in other threads, I made a search but could not find useful infos.
As some of you know, I am in the process of purchasing my first aircraft.
I heard many stories about how useful and money saving would be registering the airplane in a Country different from the one where I live (BeNeLux). Sincerely I do not have clear ideas at this regard:
would it be possible to register -legally- the plane in a different Country?
if so: which Country do you think grants the best conditions in terms of taxes, bureaucracy efficiency and/or costs of maintenance?
Any answers appreciated.
Cheers.
ZN
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would it be possible to register -legally- the plane in a different Country?
A few I know of where any citizen of another EU state may register his aircraft are:
Germany
UK
Italy
The Netherlands
if so: which Country do you think grants the best conditions in terms of taxes, bureaucracy efficiency and/or costs of maintenance?
Ciao,
Dg800
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The obvious answer is to register your aircraft in the USA.
You don't say what your aircraft is but the FAA regime is far better.
The costs of setting up a trust (to own the aircraft for you) and the costs to issue of the US certificate of airworthiness are not small but, compared to the potential costs involved in keeping a Cessna airworthy with all the SIDs, etc., you could be far better off.
You don't say what your aircraft is but the FAA regime is far better.
The costs of setting up a trust (to own the aircraft for you) and the costs to issue of the US certificate of airworthiness are not small but, compared to the potential costs involved in keeping a Cessna airworthy with all the SIDs, etc., you could be far better off.
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Thanks Bob,
But I expect that to register the a/c in the States you would need a good network to cope with bureaucracy, which at the moment I don't have.
As far as I remember there is also a number of limitations for flying N a/c in Europe, but on this I am not pretty sure.
I am buying a light a/c, most probably a Zlin which should be used for basic aerobatic competitions.
But I expect that to register the a/c in the States you would need a good network to cope with bureaucracy, which at the moment I don't have.
As far as I remember there is also a number of limitations for flying N a/c in Europe, but on this I am not pretty sure.
I am buying a light a/c, most probably a Zlin which should be used for basic aerobatic competitions.
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I see that most Zlins that are up for sale are registered in former Eastern-block countries. Whilst it may be legal for you to keep them under the original registration, it might not be very practical unless, of course, you speak fluent Polish or Hungarian.
A transfer to the German register is probably the best option for you, I wouldn't even consider setting up a trust in order to get an N registration for such a small plane.
Ciao,
Dg800
A transfer to the German register is probably the best option for you, I wouldn't even consider setting up a trust in order to get an N registration for such a small plane.
Ciao,
Dg800
Putting your aircraft on the N reg has it's own problems.
There are advantages; for example one does not have to pay the 6% insurance tax! Moreover, the FAA does not insist on manufacturers recommended maintenance items, CAA does.
But flying an N reg to Europe can be a problem. Moreover, the FAA does not recognise the CAA IMC rating, thus cannot fly in or over 8/8 cloud as you can with an IMC rating & I don't think you can fly over populated areas or at night. However, none of this might concern you. Whatever, unless you are a US citizen, you will have to get one to own your aircraft (in trust). That will cost to set up and also anually. Finally it will be a problem when you sell!
Google the subject. It can be a minefield.
There are advantages; for example one does not have to pay the 6% insurance tax! Moreover, the FAA does not insist on manufacturers recommended maintenance items, CAA does.
But flying an N reg to Europe can be a problem. Moreover, the FAA does not recognise the CAA IMC rating, thus cannot fly in or over 8/8 cloud as you can with an IMC rating & I don't think you can fly over populated areas or at night. However, none of this might concern you. Whatever, unless you are a US citizen, you will have to get one to own your aircraft (in trust). That will cost to set up and also anually. Finally it will be a problem when you sell!
Google the subject. It can be a minefield.
Last edited by sharpend; 13th Nov 2012 at 10:04.
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Putting your aircraft on the N reg has it's own problems.
I think........
I think........
The N reg is the nearest we will get to an international registration. Try flying around the world on the G reg. At some point, you WILL run out of options with maintenance. On the N reg, you can always find an A&P or FAA facility to carry out maintenance and keep you in the air.
And the problem with selling an aircraft on the N reg is???
Yes, it can be a minefield if you don't deal with someone experienced with handling N reg aircraft. There are plenty of people who have been dealing with the N reg for years.
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Try flying around the world on the G reg.
In a Zlin? Guys, we're not talking about a Cessna Citation here.
In a Zlin? Guys, we're not talking about a Cessna Citation here.
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Those of you in CAA land may find it ironic but I know of people who put their aircraft on the G register because they find the CAA very helpful and efficient.
That's compared to the IAA in my case of course. Quite a few aircraft are maintained on the British register in this country.
Probably the best option would be to enquire at your local airfield and gain from other people's experiences.
That's compared to the IAA in my case of course. Quite a few aircraft are maintained on the British register in this country.
Probably the best option would be to enquire at your local airfield and gain from other people's experiences.
N reg
Actually, I do talk from experience
I have recently considered buying an N reg aeroplane and putting it on the G Reg...
Firstly, to do so required doing about £5K+ maintenance before the CAA would issue a C of A. Secondly, the USA trust wanted money to transfer. Lastly, to stay on the N Reg meant paying the USA trust fund it's annual dues. I could go on. There is much info on the internet re N v G; points for and against as I previously mentioned.
By the way, my main reason for wanting to transfer to G reg was because I wanted to own the aircraft, not a US trust!
I agree flying a N reg around the world is probably easier than on a G, but is is far more easy flying around Europe with a CAA licence in a G reg plane than with a CAA licence in a N reg plane. As we are generally talking about GA in the UK, European flying is far more likely than flying my puddle jumper to Bolivia
I have recently considered buying an N reg aeroplane and putting it on the G Reg...
Firstly, to do so required doing about £5K+ maintenance before the CAA would issue a C of A. Secondly, the USA trust wanted money to transfer. Lastly, to stay on the N Reg meant paying the USA trust fund it's annual dues. I could go on. There is much info on the internet re N v G; points for and against as I previously mentioned.
By the way, my main reason for wanting to transfer to G reg was because I wanted to own the aircraft, not a US trust!
I agree flying a N reg around the world is probably easier than on a G, but is is far more easy flying around Europe with a CAA licence in a G reg plane than with a CAA licence in a N reg plane. As we are generally talking about GA in the UK, European flying is far more likely than flying my puddle jumper to Bolivia
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but is is far more easy flying around Europe with a CAA licence in a G reg plane than with a CAA licence in a N reg plane
UK issued pilot papers are not usable in an N-reg outside UK airspace
Ref: FAR 61.3. More here.
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Actually, I do talk from experience
I have recently considered buying an N reg aeroplane and putting it on the G Reg...
I have recently considered buying an N reg aeroplane and putting it on the G Reg...
Set up fee and annual cost of a trust?? What about set-up fee and annual cost of the rip-off Part M CAMO arrangement??
It looks as if your experience is all based on reading the internet......
Last edited by Bob Upanddown; 13th Nov 2012 at 17:28.
Bob, with respect, you might be missing the point. I want to own my aeroplane, not some faceless trust in the USA. OK, it has been said that if it 'flies, floats or f**ks', then rent it. So perhaps buying is not a good idea per se. But I, and many others, wish to! Additionally we all subscribe to the axiom: KISS.... Keep It Simple.
So I just don't want complications when it comes to selling. What happens if that company goes into liquidation?
OK, perhaps I worry too much...
So I just don't want complications when it comes to selling. What happens if that company goes into liquidation?
OK, perhaps I worry too much...
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Why?? N reg has so many advantages (including not having the CAA advertise your name and address all over the internet via G-INFO).
Set up fee and annual cost of a trust?? What about set-up fee and annual cost of the rip-off Part M CAMO arrangement??
Last edited by Dg800; 14th Nov 2012 at 08:19.
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You don't need any CAMO arrangement (I think you actually mean CAMO+) to maintain a private aircraft to EASA standards.
Small private aircraft can operate without having an arrangement with a CAMO but I don't believe anyone new to aircraft ownership can successfully manage the airworthiness and maintenance of an aircraft in the current EASA system. It has to be left to the professionals.
If you insist on managing your own aircraft, it means an ARC every year which, in my experience, can be expensive (especially if you change from CAMO Plus to CAMO Plus every year).
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Gents,
Thanks for the quantity of infos...
From what I was able to see I think the best will be to register my little Zlin in Germany.
In this decision I considered:
- experience of friends and colleagues (Dg 800 included)
- difficulties in establishing a minimum network in US for N registration
- tendency of certain countries (i.e.: Italy...) to use the a/c ownership as a tool to impose extra taxes to private persons
- logistic situation (I live less than 80km from the German border)
Thanks for the quantity of infos...
From what I was able to see I think the best will be to register my little Zlin in Germany.
In this decision I considered:
- experience of friends and colleagues (Dg 800 included)
- difficulties in establishing a minimum network in US for N registration
- tendency of certain countries (i.e.: Italy...) to use the a/c ownership as a tool to impose extra taxes to private persons
- logistic situation (I live less than 80km from the German border)
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Small private aircraft can operate without having an arrangement with a CAMO but I don't believe anyone new to aircraft ownership can successfully manage the airworthiness and maintenance of an aircraft in the current EASA system. It has to be left to the professionals.
Ciao,
Dg800