IMC
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Broadly speaking, the IMC rating is dead, soon to he replaced with a much more achievable ICAO-complaint IR.
If you don't already have one, you cannot add it to an EASA license, and you need to hold such a license to fly EASA registered aircraft.
If you don't already have one, you cannot add it to an EASA license, and you need to hold such a license to fly EASA registered aircraft.
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You can definitely get one. However it isn't clear whether it will be added as an IR(r) to your EASA licence or whether you will be given a second UK only licence with it on it, which can only be used in Annex II aircraft (after a certain date).
The documentation says you can't add the IR(r) after April 2014 (I think) to an EASA licence, but doesn't say that you can before that date (it only talks about conversion from a JAR licence).
The only way you will know how it will work is to get it in writing from the CAA - or find someone who has done it.
The IMC rating isn't completely dead yet - there is still lobbying going on, but it looks less and less likely that people will get it in the future (as I say above - you will always be able to put it onto a UK only licence, which can piggy back your EASA licence - but it wont be much use as its Annex II only).
Clear as mud
The documentation says you can't add the IR(r) after April 2014 (I think) to an EASA licence, but doesn't say that you can before that date (it only talks about conversion from a JAR licence).
The only way you will know how it will work is to get it in writing from the CAA - or find someone who has done it.
The IMC rating isn't completely dead yet - there is still lobbying going on, but it looks less and less likely that people will get it in the future (as I say above - you will always be able to put it onto a UK only licence, which can piggy back your EASA licence - but it wont be much use as its Annex II only).
Clear as mud
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As riverrock83 and flyingpony, you can add an IMC to a UK national PPL, and you can still get that (in addition to an EASA licence), at a cost of £35.
The CAA haven't yet said definitively what happens if you don't have an IMC at the time you apply for an EASA licence, so there may still be the option to add it to an EASA licence up to 2014.
The CAA haven't yet said definitively what happens if you don't have an IMC at the time you apply for an EASA licence, so there may still be the option to add it to an EASA licence up to 2014.
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There is a recent thread dealing with this and it does appear apparently as an IR(R) when you renew your licence as opposed to revalidate your rating. I was interested in this as my IMCR lapsed almost 5 years ago and I will need to jump through some hoops to renew it after 5 years and after 10 years redo the exams. There is a CAP something which explains it all.
Last edited by Justiciar; 10th Nov 2012 at 07:48.
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This whole EASA licensing firago is a bureaucratic nightmare. I'm of the view that CAA implementation of EASA rules is now positively dangerous because of the confusion it is causing.
For what it's worth I'd strongly recommend taking an IMCR course as even if they can't find a way of adding the rating to your licence, if you find yourself with a weather issue you will have the skills to deal with it and can argue the legalities on the ground later. In most cases if you haven't acted recklessly a safety related decision by a PIC trumps any rule and the more skills you have the better.
For what it's worth I'd strongly recommend taking an IMCR course as even if they can't find a way of adding the rating to your licence, if you find yourself with a weather issue you will have the skills to deal with it and can argue the legalities on the ground later. In most cases if you haven't acted recklessly a safety related decision by a PIC trumps any rule and the more skills you have the better.
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Justiciar, the original poster was asking about adding a new IMC to a new licence, not a renewal or replacement licence. The CAA have not said if an IMC/IR(R) can be added to a new or existing EASA licence. They have only said that an existing IMC will be grandfathered from a CAA or JAR licence to EASA.
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In all the Part-FCL documents on the EASA site, proposed or otherwise, there is nothing I can see that allows for the issue of a rating such as the IMC or IR(R). The requirements for flight in IMC are an IR and the rules for getting an IR are the EIR or full IR.
There is provision to allow NAA’s to issue a licence in a way that does not remove the privileges of the licence holder so, I am guessing, that the UK CAA are issuing the IR(R) on that basis.
There is provision to allow NAA’s to issue a licence in a way that does not remove the privileges of the licence holder so, I am guessing, that the UK CAA are issuing the IR(R) on that basis.
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One advantage of doing the IMCR is that the proposed CBM IR will allow a credit for much of the IMCR training.
The current JAA IR does not allow credit for anything, short of another ICAO IR (e.g. the FAA IR).
Of course, all of this is in a state of flux anyway....
However my view, formed over the 12 years I've been kicking around this silly paper collection game, is that if you have a chance to collect a qualification, go for it. Especially one which is actually really useful. The IMCR will change the way you plan a flight and the way you execute the flight, very much for the better and safer.
The current JAA IR does not allow credit for anything, short of another ICAO IR (e.g. the FAA IR).
Of course, all of this is in a state of flux anyway....
However my view, formed over the 12 years I've been kicking around this silly paper collection game, is that if you have a chance to collect a qualification, go for it. Especially one which is actually really useful. The IMCR will change the way you plan a flight and the way you execute the flight, very much for the better and safer.
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Easy really...
I've just done my IMC..
I have a JAA PPL(A).
I am using form SG1104 to convert my JAA PPL(A) to an EASA licence.
Adding an IR(r) to it using my IMC test/training signoff. It will appear on the licence as an IR(R) - which is an IR but with the restrictions as pertain to an IMCR (how bloody sensible !).
I will apply (little tick box on the SG1104 form to do it) for a National PPL so I can continue to FLY annex2 aircraft as I also fly a permit to fly homebuilt - which I cannot do on an EASA licence (but can on my JAA one...but as that will be converted to an EASA - oh I'm sure you're keeping up !).
203 of my British pounds and a 2 month wait should sort that little lot out... But I think I'm going to wait and add the night rating to the EASA licence at the same time.
Oh - and just make sure that the CAA already know and have stated that you are a proficient English speaker to level 6 or I'm told that it could delay the issue of the EASA licence until they find out.. probably via the irate phone call you make about the delay..ah - but they have that covered as they have turned the phones off for most of the day because of the number of calls they are getting about the EASA licences....
Will be gin clear weather from now on..
Cheers..
I have a JAA PPL(A).
I am using form SG1104 to convert my JAA PPL(A) to an EASA licence.
Adding an IR(r) to it using my IMC test/training signoff. It will appear on the licence as an IR(R) - which is an IR but with the restrictions as pertain to an IMCR (how bloody sensible !).
I will apply (little tick box on the SG1104 form to do it) for a National PPL so I can continue to FLY annex2 aircraft as I also fly a permit to fly homebuilt - which I cannot do on an EASA licence (but can on my JAA one...but as that will be converted to an EASA - oh I'm sure you're keeping up !).
203 of my British pounds and a 2 month wait should sort that little lot out... But I think I'm going to wait and add the night rating to the EASA licence at the same time.
Oh - and just make sure that the CAA already know and have stated that you are a proficient English speaker to level 6 or I'm told that it could delay the issue of the EASA licence until they find out.. probably via the irate phone call you make about the delay..ah - but they have that covered as they have turned the phones off for most of the day because of the number of calls they are getting about the EASA licences....
Will be gin clear weather from now on..
Cheers..
Last edited by mossie1960; 10th Nov 2012 at 20:20.
Having just passed my skills, can i still get an IMC?
Provided you apply before Apr 2014, your Part-FCL licence can include an IR(R), which is identical in all respects to an IMC Rating!!
Some of the utter nonsense written on this thread makes me wonder quite how many other ill-informed half-truths are circulating around the bazaars these days.....
But yes, I quite agree that EASA Part-FCL is an absurd, pointless, unwanted and totally unnecessary piece of junk legislation!
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I'm glad you popped up Beags as although I'm not a legislation expert I at least knew what you just posted, I didn't feel confident enough to post on it though! 
It is as Beags says.
It is as Beags says.
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Quote:
Having just passed my skills, can i still get an IMC? YES!!
Provided you apply before Apr 2014, your Part-FCL licence can include an IR(R), which is identical in all respects to an IMC Rating!!
Having just passed my skills, can i still get an IMC? YES!!
Provided you apply before Apr 2014, your Part-FCL licence can include an IR(R), which is identical in all respects to an IMC Rating!!
VERY DEFINITE answer.
As IR(R) is not a recognised EASA Rating. How can it be added to an existing "True" Part-FCL License?
As EU law prevents us from losing existing privileges any Ratings on
a "Deemed to be" Part-FCL (eg JAR) License have to be carried over
to the new "True" Part-FCL - hence if IMC on "old" License then IR(R)
will be added at time of License conversion - provided this takes place
before April 2014.
I see no way for a National Rating to be added to an existing EASA License. Hence someone who has just passed their Skils Test can do an IMC and get it issued on to a UK National Livence - but not on their EASA Part-FCL
I do hope I'm wrong, and you are right. Please explain how!
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One for BEags...
BEags
Thanks to your pragmatism and savoir-faire we now all know (if we didn't already) that a UK IMCR, added to a UK PPL before April 2014, will result in a 'grandfathered' IR(R).
So far, so good.
However, I don't know if I will be able to afford to undertake an IMCR course before then (although I would very much wish to).
So please indulge me a little further (also for the benefit of the PPRuNe GA community at large...) is there yet an EASA syllabus for the IR(R) for those without such 'grandfather' rights? If, so, how many hours? And would/will it confer privileges outside UK airspace?
Just wondering...
Gadget
Edit: I think that overlaps a bit with Level Attitude's query above...
Thanks to your pragmatism and savoir-faire we now all know (if we didn't already) that a UK IMCR, added to a UK PPL before April 2014, will result in a 'grandfathered' IR(R).
So far, so good.
However, I don't know if I will be able to afford to undertake an IMCR course before then (although I would very much wish to).
So please indulge me a little further (also for the benefit of the PPRuNe GA community at large...) is there yet an EASA syllabus for the IR(R) for those without such 'grandfather' rights? If, so, how many hours? And would/will it confer privileges outside UK airspace?
Just wondering...
Gadget
Edit: I think that overlaps a bit with Level Attitude's query above...
Last edited by Captain Gadget; 10th Nov 2012 at 21:00. Reason: came second
So please indulge me a little further (also for the benefit of the PPRuNe GA community at large...) is there yet an EASA syllabus for the IR(R) for those without such 'grandfather' rights? If, so, how many hours? And would/will it confer privileges outside UK airspace?
2. There is no 'EASA IR(R)' syllabus; training is the same as it has always been.
3. The IR(R) is restricted to the same privileges as the UK IMCr, hence it has no validity outside UK airspace.
4. Under current EASA proposals, any IMC rating application received after Apr 2014 would not be eligible for inclusion on a Part-FCL licence; instead it would be included in a national UK licence and could not be used on EASA aeroplanes.
5. The NPA 2011-16 CRD has raised such anger at the brusque dismissal of the FCL.600(b) proposal to reintroduce the provisions of JAR-FCL 1.175(b) that hard questions are being asked at very high level! The EASA rulemakers "Weil Befehl ist Befehl!" attitude is unacceptable and they need to address the issue to the commission. So our fight for continuance of the IMCr / IR(R) goes on!
6. An IR(R) is an EASA IR(A) restricted to UK IMCr privileges in accordance with the Aircrew Regulation.
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BEagle
VERY DEFINITE answer.
As IR(R) is not a recognised EASA Rating. How can it be added to an existing "True" Part-FCL License?
As EU law prevents us from losing existing privileges any Ratings on
a "Deemed to be" Part-FCL (eg JAR) License have to be carried over
to the new "True" Part-FCL - hence if IMC on "old" License then IR(R)
will be added at time of License conversion - provided this takes place
before April 2014.
I see no way for a National Rating to be added to an existing EASA License. Hence someone who has just passed their Skils Test can do an IMC and get it issued on to a UK National Livence - but not on their EASA Part-FCL
I do hope I'm wrong, and you are right. Please explain how!
VERY DEFINITE answer.
As IR(R) is not a recognised EASA Rating. How can it be added to an existing "True" Part-FCL License?
As EU law prevents us from losing existing privileges any Ratings on
a "Deemed to be" Part-FCL (eg JAR) License have to be carried over
to the new "True" Part-FCL - hence if IMC on "old" License then IR(R)
will be added at time of License conversion - provided this takes place
before April 2014.
I see no way for a National Rating to be added to an existing EASA License. Hence someone who has just passed their Skils Test can do an IMC and get it issued on to a UK National Livence - but not on their EASA Part-FCL
I do hope I'm wrong, and you are right. Please explain how!
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I have been given many different answers but my question is,
My IMC lapsed in June this year. How long have I got to renew it before I loose it for good?
It's on my licence which I renewed at the beginning of this year
Kind regards
c24
My IMC lapsed in June this year. How long have I got to renew it before I loose it for good?
It's on my licence which I renewed at the beginning of this year
Kind regards
c24
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Beagle
You have said this confidently before elsewhere which just confuses things because you dance around the issue.
I understand that your background is incredibly strong in licensing issues - you often appear to have access to knowledge that us mere mortals don't - so please don't take this as disrespect.
I'm reacting to your comment:
Simple, hopefully unambiguous question.
Can you add an IR(r) to a New Part-FCL licence (ie - not during a conversion)?
If so - please provide the reference / source / quote that says you can.
We know (and can reference) that you can get it added during conversion from JAR to Part-FCL licence.
We also know that you can add it to a new UK National PPL (which is essentially piggy backing the Part-FCL licence) for evermore, but know that this is Annex II only (it will not let you fly EASA aircraft in IMC).
I asked this in a previous thread without a clear answer from yourself, so please don't treat us like fools.
You have said this confidently before elsewhere which just confuses things because you dance around the issue.
I understand that your background is incredibly strong in licensing issues - you often appear to have access to knowledge that us mere mortals don't - so please don't take this as disrespect.
I'm reacting to your comment:
Some of the utter nonsense written on this thread makes me wonder quite how many other ill-informed half-truths are circulating around the bazaars these days
Can you add an IR(r) to a New Part-FCL licence (ie - not during a conversion)?
If so - please provide the reference / source / quote that says you can.
We know (and can reference) that you can get it added during conversion from JAR to Part-FCL licence.
We also know that you can add it to a new UK National PPL (which is essentially piggy backing the Part-FCL licence) for evermore, but know that this is Annex II only (it will not let you fly EASA aircraft in IMC).
I asked this in a previous thread without a clear answer from yourself, so please don't treat us like fools.