Handheld transceiver for 11 Nov

[tmmorris]

Our school/CCF Remembrance Sunday parade usually includes a flypast by a local vintage aircraft - this year we hope to have a Tiger Moth. In previous years this has been coordinated by handheld radio with an Aldis lamp as a backup. However, the member of staff who owned the radio has recently retired to Gozo and we don't between us have a radio... (We have managed to borrow an Aldis lamp. Funny how that was easier than the radio!)

If anyone in the Abingdon/Oxford area a. has and b. is prepared to lend us a transceiver for Sunday 11 Nov I'd be very grateful indeed - very happy to collect from you and return in person. Please PM me if so.

Thanks,

Tim

[Fitter2]

Hi Tim

see your PMs

F2

[tmmorris]

Many thanks and kudos to AFE Oxford who have sorted us out.

Tim

[chevvron]

Is everything in order?

tmmorris:

Does the person using this radio intend to transmit to the flypast aircraft? If so has a frequency been allocated by the CAA? and does the radio operator hold a Certificate of Competence to operate a radio staion?
EDIT: Plus of course you would also need a licence to operate a ground radio transmitting station.

[Jim59]

I have a handheld radio with a license (£25 this year - £75 next) and an approved call sign of '*** mobile' for ground use. No certificate of competence is needed because I don't use the suffix 'Radio', only 'Mobile'. No geographical restrictions on use within the UK. However I'm limited to using specific gliding, ballooning and parachuting frequencies as listed on the license.

Although I'm the licensee I can allow others to operate it.

[Whopity]

I'm the licensee I can allow others to operate it.

But subject to the same conditions

I'm limited to using specific gliding, ballooning and parachuting frequencies as listed on the license.

Which is not a lot of use for a vintage aircraft flypast!

[BackPacker]

In a case like this, I always act on the basis that it's only illegal if you get caught.

[India Four Two]

Backpacker,

Finally some common sense, but then I see you don't live in the UK either!

[Whopity]

Do you assume that the vintage aircraft are so vintage they cannot change the frequency on their radio?

Why is it that so many people assume that you can simply grab a frequency that is allocated for a specific purpose and use it for whatever you want. Whilst you may not be bothered about breaking the law, it also shows a remarkable lack of discipline.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The irresponsibility of some people on this thread is quite incredible.

[peterh337]

Do you mean the use of a handheld radio?

[patowalker]

Click, click, click

[gasax]

Does anyone here ever see daylight? If there is a reason GA is dyoing this is a perfect example.

The guy who 'needs' a radio does n't.

The others simply want to make everything difficult because? Well because!!!

[chevvron]

As far as I'm aware, gliding organisations in the UK are only allowed to operate on those frequencies allocated to the BGA ie 129.9, 129.975, 130.1, 130.125, 130.4 and all traffic on these frequencies is restricted to communications in connection with gliding operations, plus ballooning on 122.475 likewise. It is a similar situation with Microlight Common on 129.825.
Not using the callsign suffix 'radio' does not give you permission to use any frequency you like.
The use of 123.450 is specifically prohibited by the CAA as it is allocated for other uses.(mind you, 123.4 has recently ceased to be used by its major operator!)

[India Four Two]

The operator and radio licensing stuff described above for handhelds is silly, and in its entirely totally unnecessary.

Well said, Silvaire1. On a par with pilot-operated lighting being illegal in the UK.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

It does seem arcane. I can see the need to protect working frequencies from rogue transmissions, but why doesn't CAA allocate 123.45 as a 'free for all' not allocated to any specific user?

[mad_jock]

CAA doesn't allocate frequencys each one also has to be paid for.

[Whopity]

but why doesn't CAA allocate 123.45 as a 'free for all' not allocated to any specific user?

As already stated the CAA does not allocate frequencies. As you say it would be a free for all and that is exactly what they want to avoid. If you have a genuine reason to use a radio in the Aeronautical Band then there is a process for doing so that insures you do not cause undue interference to other services and similarly nobody will cause undue interference to you. As with all such processes they cost money. If you are the holder of a radio licence and you are prosecuted for a radio offence then they have the right to withdraw that licence as the holder is considered to be a person unsuitable to hold such a licence.

[Dan Dare]

Safetycom?

[BackPacker]

Safetycom?

Like Whopity said, there is a specific process for allocating frequencies, to prevent overlap, interference and whatnot. That process works but is expensive and time consuming. In this particular case we are probably talking about maybe five radio calls, all given within a time frame of about five minutes, from a handheld (low power) radio on the ground and from a low-flying aircraft. The chances of interfering with anything if you pick a random frequency are very, very small. And even then the system of R/T is set up to deal with the occasional interference. Has your conversation ever been stepped upon? Solved without drama, was it?

Now obviously the OP isn't going to pick 121.5 or the Tower frequency of the nearest commercial airport, but will apply some common sense as to what frequency to use. And as the OP is a pilot, he will have a pretty good idea on what are suitable frequencies in his area.

Not knowing the specific location of the OP, I would personally probably go for:
- 123.45,
- safetycom, or
- a glider/balloon/microlight "exempt" frequency

But you can do better than just picking one of those and hope you don't interfere with anything: A lot of operators have "company" frequencies, and controlled fields typically have a few "backup" frequencies they only rarely use. You can approach these organizations and ask them kindly if you can use one of those for the five minutes your little display is going to last.

As an example, we had a charity flying event (about 120 flights) a while ago. About twenty aircraft needed to taxi and park in a relatively confined space, so we needed our own ground control during the event, to prevent gridlock situations. We approached one of the operators based on the field, who does banner towing and other aerial work, and asked if we could use their company frequency for the day. No problem whatsoever.