London area to Amsterdam
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London area to Amsterdam
Hi guys, I'm thinking of flying from small airpot close to london to Amsterdam.
Ideally is like to go straight over the water since its cheaper. Has anyone done this before? Do you have any idea of the time it will take and what to expect from Atc.
Ideally is like to go straight over the water since its cheaper. Has anyone done this before? Do you have any idea of the time it will take and what to expect from Atc.
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There are a few airports you can use.
Schiphol (EHAM) itself is open to VFR/GA. Approach via Victor, land on 04/22 (with a threshold base, most likely) and be handled by the KLM JetCenter. Expect not much change from 300 euros after landing, ATC and handling.
Lelystad (EHLE) is very GA friendly, has a relatively long runway and reasonable public transport connections to Amsterdam. Follow the approach procedures (via Bravo) strictly as Lelystad can get very busy on good days.
Hilversum (EHHV) is a grass field with three relatively short runways, surrounded by trees. You should be able to get in and out in an Arrow just fine, but pay attention to the circuits in use and how to orient yourself. There's a lot of controlled airspace nearby and above, and a lot of glider flying going on. Don't mess up. Furthermore, although laterally closer to Amsterdam than Lelystad, public transport connections are slightly worse.
Rotterdam (EHRD) used to be a convenient place too, if you got handling through the Vliegclub Rotterdam. But I heard that the club is no longer allowed to do handling for GA (still to be confirmed though), so you have to go through Aviapartner or the KLM JetCenter, which is going to set you back about 100 euros. Add in some 30 euros for landing and ATC and you are better off going to Lelystad.
If this is the first time you are crossing the Channel or North Sea, I strongly recommend you do DVR-Calais, or DVR-KOK (via KONAN). Apart from the risk of an engine failure and ending up in the drink, there are other dangers lurking when flying over sea. One of the most insidious is that perfect VMC is actually very much like full IMC over the North Sea. The reason is that, even if flight visibility is 30 kilometers, the horizon is further away at any reasonable altitude. That means that the blue-grey of the sea melts seamlessly into the grey-blue of the sky, leaving you with no horizon or other reference to speak of. Unless you look straight down at shipping. Something you need to see to believe. Doing a short crossing means that you will not be out of sight of land, and that means you have a visible horizon.
From London, a direct routing to Amsterdam is only marginally shorter than doing the DVR-Calais or DVR-KOK crossing. It only starts making a significant difference if your departure is from the middle of England upwards.
Schiphol (EHAM) itself is open to VFR/GA. Approach via Victor, land on 04/22 (with a threshold base, most likely) and be handled by the KLM JetCenter. Expect not much change from 300 euros after landing, ATC and handling.
Lelystad (EHLE) is very GA friendly, has a relatively long runway and reasonable public transport connections to Amsterdam. Follow the approach procedures (via Bravo) strictly as Lelystad can get very busy on good days.
Hilversum (EHHV) is a grass field with three relatively short runways, surrounded by trees. You should be able to get in and out in an Arrow just fine, but pay attention to the circuits in use and how to orient yourself. There's a lot of controlled airspace nearby and above, and a lot of glider flying going on. Don't mess up. Furthermore, although laterally closer to Amsterdam than Lelystad, public transport connections are slightly worse.
Rotterdam (EHRD) used to be a convenient place too, if you got handling through the Vliegclub Rotterdam. But I heard that the club is no longer allowed to do handling for GA (still to be confirmed though), so you have to go through Aviapartner or the KLM JetCenter, which is going to set you back about 100 euros. Add in some 30 euros for landing and ATC and you are better off going to Lelystad.
If this is the first time you are crossing the Channel or North Sea, I strongly recommend you do DVR-Calais, or DVR-KOK (via KONAN). Apart from the risk of an engine failure and ending up in the drink, there are other dangers lurking when flying over sea. One of the most insidious is that perfect VMC is actually very much like full IMC over the North Sea. The reason is that, even if flight visibility is 30 kilometers, the horizon is further away at any reasonable altitude. That means that the blue-grey of the sea melts seamlessly into the grey-blue of the sky, leaving you with no horizon or other reference to speak of. Unless you look straight down at shipping. Something you need to see to believe. Doing a short crossing means that you will not be out of sight of land, and that means you have a visible horizon.
From London, a direct routing to Amsterdam is only marginally shorter than doing the DVR-Calais or DVR-KOK crossing. It only starts making a significant difference if your departure is from the middle of England upwards.
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I think I'll go Leystad as its only 20ish euros.
I was planning on going from denham or panshanger. I've
Got cpl/Ir But the majority of the airways are quite high according to my chart? How long is the round trip? Even if I went I the c172?
I was planning on going from denham or panshanger. I've
Got cpl/Ir But the majority of the airways are quite high according to my chart? How long is the round trip? Even if I went I the c172?
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Jugs, based on your post and the PM I just received, I'm getting a very strong feeling that Easyjet might be a far better option.
You say you've got a CPL but you're not able to figure out how much time and money you need to expect for the crossing. You've got an IR but you don't know how to plan an airways flight, apparently. And you've got a fixed date in mind on which lousy weather (including icing at any meaningful altitude) is a real possibility.
Build your experience slowly. Do a Channel crossing when there's no pressure to be on the other side at a specific date or time, so you can wait for reasonable weather. Expand your experience from there. But the plan you seem to be creating now has a very strong possibility of ending in tears. If not worse.
You say you've got a CPL but you're not able to figure out how much time and money you need to expect for the crossing. You've got an IR but you don't know how to plan an airways flight, apparently. And you've got a fixed date in mind on which lousy weather (including icing at any meaningful altitude) is a real possibility.
Build your experience slowly. Do a Channel crossing when there's no pressure to be on the other side at a specific date or time, so you can wait for reasonable weather. Expand your experience from there. But the plan you seem to be creating now has a very strong possibility of ending in tears. If not worse.
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Croasing
Yeah I want to do the flight VFR but if needed I will fly in imc.
I'd go from panshanger to margate to Brugge to Ams. I'm not going to go airways as I'd prefers to take the duchess for this.
I think it will be 4hrs round trip about £600. Yes icing could be an issue on the day so I'd have a backup plan.
Basically I guess I was just looking for the simplest safest route other than Easyjet!
I'd go from panshanger to margate to Brugge to Ams. I'm not going to go airways as I'd prefers to take the duchess for this.
I think it will be 4hrs round trip about £600. Yes icing could be an issue on the day so I'd have a backup plan.
Basically I guess I was just looking for the simplest safest route other than Easyjet!
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Have you spoken to an instructor about your planned trip?
PPRuNe is great for getting info but in terms of extensive route planning help etc you are better off getting an instructor or just an experienced PPL who travels in Europe a lot to sit down with you and talk you through the points you are unsure about. There is no reason in particular why you couldn't do a trip like this with little previous experience of European travel but you need to be clear of exactly how the whole process works...
Where did you do your CPL/IR...can someone there not help you?
PPRuNe is great for getting info but in terms of extensive route planning help etc you are better off getting an instructor or just an experienced PPL who travels in Europe a lot to sit down with you and talk you through the points you are unsure about. There is no reason in particular why you couldn't do a trip like this with little previous experience of European travel but you need to be clear of exactly how the whole process works...
Where did you do your CPL/IR...can someone there not help you?
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Basically I guess I was just looking for the simplest safest route other than Easyjet!
Note: I just plugged the route into Skydemon. Direct line and you will do 117nm across the north sea and in my plane it would take 1h 40 min.
Interestingly, with todays winds, if I routed down to Dover and across that way, it would take me 1hr 39 mins and only about 27nm over water.
Last edited by englishal; 16th Oct 2012 at 12:14.
