Flight To The Isle of Man...

[Scott C]

Hi all,

I am planning a flight to Ronaldsway at the end of the month, but am just feeling a bit nervous about the water crossing.

I have flown to Calais, Le Touquet and Jersey over the past 12 months, but now fancy the Isle of Man.

I will be flying a Cessna 150 Aerobat and will have Lifejackets and a PLB, but am trying to plan the best route. I have an IMC and Night Qual and about 140hours TT.

I am flying from Tatenhill, so was thinking of going to Hawarden, WAL then dct IOM. Would you go this route or would something like Hawarden, Anglesy then dct IOM be better?

If I go WAL dct IOM, would it be SVFR as I'd be in Class A?

I appreciate any help.

Many thanks,

Scott.

[flybymike]

SVFR is not available in Class A which is permanently IFR (unless it is a CTR zone as opposed to a CTA or airway)
It should be possible to avoid all class A and route direct from WAL .
IOM and Liverpool are class D and VFR is therefore available, although you could go IFR if you prefer (but not in Class A with only an IMCR). Routing to Anglesy hardly seems worth it to me.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Shortest overwater crossing is from St Bees Head, but it's a long way up to there and extends the total route considerably.

I have flown to IOM from Barton, Liverpool, and Blackpool when I was lot younger. I actually wouldn't do it today in a single as I'm a tad more circumspect these days and always like to have an 'out' when flying. Engine failure is a vanishingly rare probability, but it could happen and if it does over the Irish Sea survival is unlikely.

However, lots and lots of pilots make the crossing every year in singles and few have persished, so I'm not saying you should share my view.

Enjoy the flight.

[Flylogical]

I'm based at EGNS with my Bulldog (single-engne-piston). I've flown all the routes you mention, many times. In my opinion, always best to minimize the water-crossing. That suggests coasting-out from Whitehaven to enter IOM zone at Laxey, then tracking down the East Coast of IOM to EGNS. It makes your trip from Tatenhill slightly longer -- but not much longer. Just go up the low-level corridor to Blackpool, then up the West coast to Whitehaven for the crossing. It makes your crossing 15 miles rather than 60....

Also, at risk of stating the obvious, be very careful with wx planning. IOM can get bad, quickly, this time of year especially. With your IMC you can get radar vectors to the ILS at Ronaldsway (class D), but you really don't want to be doing that in true IMC in a little cessna.

Enjoy.

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi, If you want a bit of height for the crossing you could go via the North Wales coast.. fl.065 and fl.075 at Llandudno. BUT if you need vfr conditions, these are few and far between. I tried a vfr crossing and the ATIS gave Few at 1000ft when I was over Wales, which turned into Broken at 0ft half way across the Irish Sea. (I diverted to Caernafon.)
I have been looking at the IOM Manx Radio Webcams most days and really good vfr only occurs for about 3 days a month.
If you do get there, try out their Manx steam railway for a trip into Douglas, and the Manx Electric Railway for a trip up Snaefell.

Best of luck... Pete

[Chinesespaceman]

Don't forget 12 hours notice for the GAR form.....

Andreas at the north of the island is officially closed to non based aircraft but is sometimes a useful diversion if Ronaldsway becomes weathered in

There is very high ground to the north of Ronaldsway, so any routing from the North might be best coming down the east coast in poor viz.

Have fun

[thing]

With your IMC you can get radar vectors to the ILS at Ronaldsway (class D), but you really don't want to be doing that in true IMC in a little cessna.

Surely that's the whole point of having an IMC rating so long as he can be out of the clag at his minimums? Not that I'm advocating planning a flight into known bad weather etc but it's there to be used if the situation dictates.

[A and C]

No reason not to go to minimums in any aircraft that has the equipment to do so (as long as you have a plan 2) but with winter approaching the thing to keep a sharp eye on is the freezing level vs MSA.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Andreas at the north of the island is officially closed to non based aircraft but is sometimes a useful diversion if Ronaldsway becomes weathered in

Nah, I flew in there a couple of years back. Give them a call (if you can get hold of them!), lady I dealt with was very friendly and had no problem with me leaving the a/c there overnight while I stayed with my folks who live in the local village. Runway could do with some work - when landing, just fly down it in ground effect until you find a good spot and set her down!

Beats all the extortionate prices and faffing about that goes with Ronaldsway, and you can fly straight in there, no need to go to EGNS first.

Also, weather is usually considerably better in the flat North of the island, between north of Snaefell and the point of ayre...

Regards the crossing, did this trip many a time from Tatenhill, always went Hawarden then crossed straight from somewhere west of Flint, just to avoid Liverpool's zone.

Enjoy the flight, whatever route you take, but as somebody mentioned above, keep one eye on the weather at all times approaching the island, it literally can change just like that!

[Jodelman]

Nah, I flew in there a couple of years back

Things have changed very recently.

[Flylogical]

Yes, the IMC rating can get you out of jail, but only if you are current in flying in IMC. If not, it is dangerous. Also, your IMC rating doesn't help to melt the ice on the airframe or windscreen. Freezing rain on the canopy can make a nonsense of your minima since you see nothing out the front at zero altitude in otherwise good viz.

...but if wx decent, it's a great fun and easy trip.

[A and C]

Andreas

A few winters have taken there toll on the runways at Andreas so the surface is not so good.

The place is ripe for investment as the GA airfield for the IoM but the shortsighted government has only eyes for the Ronaldsway intergalactic spaceport and so discourages change at Andreas dispite the income that this would bring to the island. So typically short sighted, perhaps they need to get the guys who have revitalized the TT to look at airport policy.

[Pace]

Scott

You mentioned you are nervous of crossing water which is understandable.
Flying is all about risk management and unless you are at an altitude where you can glide to land if you loose the engine you are coming down into the sea!
You can minimize those risks by choosing dead calm days for your trip and not days where harmless looking white caps at 3000 feet are in fact 30 foot waves close too!
The chances of loosing the engine totally are small but there is a chance especially with piston engines so that is a risk you have to accept and take!
Do not go at the end of the day when daylight is limited in event of a search and rescue.
Make sure you are talking to someone?
Maybe consider going up the coast to Blackpool and crossing there which is shorter.
Consider life rafts and jackets ! some would even propose immersion suits as you will not survive for hours in the sea.
At the end of the day life holds many risks there is a risk you have to accept it or not fly single engine piston low level over water.

Pace

[peterh337]

The club there closed recently, for the winter. Previously, they had a "mandatory handling" concession, so now you deal direct with the airport.

I phoned up the airport the other day and the man says that as far as he knows, Shell sell avgas, so nothing has actually changed.

[Scott C]

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions.

I have planned several routes and will decide on the best one once I see what the Wx conditions are like and how the aircraft is performing on the day.

My proposed routes are:

1. Tatenhill - Hawarden - WAL - IOM - Ronaldsway. (139nm with 71nm water crossing).
2. Tatenhill - Hawarden - Amlwch - IOM - Ronaldsway. (147nm with 42nm water crossing).
3. Tatenhill - Winsford VRP - LL Corridor - Haydock VRP - Marshside VRP - Blackpool - CAR - Ronaldsway. (139nm with 56nm water crossing).
4. Tatenhill - Winsford VRP - LL Corridor - Haydock VRP - Marshside VRP - Blackpool - Barrow Walney Island - Laxey - Ronaldsway. (152nm with 40nm water crossing).

I would like to be around 5000ft - 7000ft over the sea, so am thinking options 2 and 4 would be the better options to achieve that.

Diversions include:

Blackpool, Caernarfon, Hawarden and ultimately Tatenhill.

Can you spot any potential issues? (Which doesn't include the big blue pond lol)

Many thanks again.

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi Scott, some of the manx webcams include....

:: Manx Radio :: The Isle of Man's Premier Radio Station ::

(The Snaefell picture gives an indication of cloudbase.. Snaefell = 2037ft.)

and

RamseyCam - Webcam views of Ramsey

ttfn Pete

[reportyourlevel]

CAR is out of service at the moment. Don't forget there is class A between WAL and IOM with the base at FL65 dropping to FL45 (still class A) as you near the IOM CTA. The IOM CTA itself is of course class D: make sure you call Ronaldsway with a bit of notice. I'm sure they'd b happy to give you a service from anytime you coast out, as kong as you are high enough to get two-way comms. I'd advise a full FPL if you can.

[140KIAS]

If it was me then I would go for a modified version of option 2.

EGBM - Wrexham - Amylwch - EGNS, staying to the south of Hawarden and the Class A.

Ive flown to EGNS a few times, but always from the north so its the relatively short crossing from Burrow Head. Plus I've had the advantage of a few more knots than you.

One thing I did learn the hardway is that if the wind is from the east the clag can rollin very quickly. I mean VERY. Our day turned from CAVOK to 100m vis in about half an hour. Waited it out and just managed to leave at IMCR minimums with 1.5 hours day light left and a one hour flight.

Made me realise that the IMCR wasnt just about getting back down. Without it I would have been spending the night on the island.

Oh and if you are parking on the south apron make sure you have got transport arranged in advance. Taxis were reluctant to come round there and its a long walk to the main road/terminal.

[thing]

Yes, the IMC rating can get you out of jail, but only if you are current in flying in IMC. If not, it is dangerous. Also, your IMC rating doesn't help to melt the ice on the airframe or windscreen. Freezing rain on the canopy can make a nonsense of your minima since you see nothing out the front at zero altitude in otherwise good viz.

Yes, but anyone who needs the above pointing out shouldn't be riding a pushbike, never mind flying an aircraft...

I know you are making a good point for the best reasons but any IMC rated pilot would, I think, I hope to God, already know that.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Thanks for the update guys, shame to hear Andreas is less active/inviting these days...

To the OP, from Tatenhill you should be alright given the runway length, so get as much fuel as you can, it will give you peace of mind for the crossing.

Regards diversions, do not forget Newtownards in Northern Ireland, it is the closest alternate to Ronaldsway at about 45 nm and it's worth getting a weather report from them if you arrive over a clag ridden island. It's only psychological that it seems further, but is about 30 nm closer than Caernarfon or Blackpool