Is there a pilot onboard?
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Peerh's. Crucially do not use the auto thrust while in manual flight. The thrust couples will confuse the wassname out of you,if the grotesque handling of the beast has not already done your head in!
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Being PPL- and PMDG-endowed I am quite confident that I could autoland(!) a flawlessly functioning 737 in favourable conditions (talkdown by ATC and maybe a 737 pilot, plenty of time for setting up the autopilot, someone to work the checklists with me, benign weather etc.). If someone can explain sufficiently well which buttons I need to push, it might work with another comparable jet as well. Trying a manual airliner landing without prior training would probably result in the plane looking like British Airways Flight 38 in the very best of circumstances. And of course, if anything goes sour, I'd be in over my head almost immediately.
And then there is always that unfortunate final twist in my fantasies of this kind: after keeping my nerves, finding out in time how to communicate with ATC, being successfully talked through all procedures, omitting no important checklist item, hitting no wrong button, keeping my hands off the control column and thrust levers and watching in awe and relief as the plane settles onto the runway and comes to a stop with smoking brakes (because I wouldn't dare to use the reversers) I get fancy and try to taxi the thing off the runway just to misjudge the first turn and get stuck in the grass and consequently laughed and frowned at (and probably sued, too) instead of hailed. Just as well that I don't travel by plane
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And then there is always that unfortunate final twist in my fantasies of this kind: after keeping my nerves, finding out in time how to communicate with ATC, being successfully talked through all procedures, omitting no important checklist item, hitting no wrong button, keeping my hands off the control column and thrust levers and watching in awe and relief as the plane settles onto the runway and comes to a stop with smoking brakes (because I wouldn't dare to use the reversers) I get fancy and try to taxi the thing off the runway just to misjudge the first turn and get stuck in the grass and consequently laughed and frowned at (and probably sued, too) instead of hailed. Just as well that I don't travel by plane
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I've had a bash at a few circuits in an A320 sim at LHR.
I would say that the critical thing is to have radio contact.
If the correct frequency is already dialled in and you are able to make contact without touching anything except the PTT and ATC can get someone to talk you through, you have a chance of saving lives. You have zero chance of not damaging the aeroplane.
The biggest "gotcha" for me was the auto-throttles. I was nicely lined up with just a 100ft to go and didn't realise that I had to disconnect the auto throttles in order to land!
I would say that the critical thing is to have radio contact.
If the correct frequency is already dialled in and you are able to make contact without touching anything except the PTT and ATC can get someone to talk you through, you have a chance of saving lives. You have zero chance of not damaging the aeroplane.
The biggest "gotcha" for me was the auto-throttles. I was nicely lined up with just a 100ft to go and didn't realise that I had to disconnect the auto throttles in order to land!
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Question I have to ask therefore as many seem to think anyone can do it! Why bother with the basic PPL just get one of the cabin crew to do it!
They would be just as successful?
Pace
They would be just as successful?
Pace
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Well as a line trainer.
Shall we say that a commercial pilot in there first job after completing the type rating in the sim and having done 6 circuits it needs a whole load of factors in there favour to be able to pull a solo approach off. Twin instructors fare much better but even they can get there knickers in a twist. Its usually 50-60 landings before things become safe and over a 100 before the more challanging wx conditions can be explored.
Personally I think I might be able to get it close to the ground with those types, But the next part would get a bit messy, either a tail strike, ramming the nose gear through the floor or off the side/end.
If someone was on box two telling me which buttons to press for the auto land we would pull it off I suspect. And if we had a 15 year old MSFX 10000 pilot in the RHS that would help as well.
Shall we say that a commercial pilot in there first job after completing the type rating in the sim and having done 6 circuits it needs a whole load of factors in there favour to be able to pull a solo approach off. Twin instructors fare much better but even they can get there knickers in a twist. Its usually 50-60 landings before things become safe and over a 100 before the more challanging wx conditions can be explored.
Personally I think I might be able to get it close to the ground with those types, But the next part would get a bit messy, either a tail strike, ramming the nose gear through the floor or off the side/end.
If someone was on box two telling me which buttons to press for the auto land we would pull it off I suspect. And if we had a 15 year old MSFX 10000 pilot in the RHS that would help as well.
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Assuming you are able to make radio contact you are not going to be physically landing the aircraft. The autopilot will already be engaged and you'll be told how to use the hdg sel knob to turn the aircraft, the fl chg button to descend the aircraft, the speed knob to reduce speed, the flap lever to extend the flaps and the gear likewise. You'll be told how to select the autobrake and then you'll be left sitting there and watching the thing autoland and then stop on the runway. Finally you'll be told how to set the parking brake, start the APU and then shut down the engines.
You'll get a gold star from your teacher and be mentioned in the Daily Mail dispatches.
I could genuinely talk any reasonably savvy person through this operation but would much prefer someone, such as a PPL holder, who has an idea of what is going on even if he/she doesn't understand all the banter.
As for logging it; fill yer boots. You'd have helped save a bunch of people so if it makes you feel good then write it in your logbook. You can't count the time towards any totals but it'll certainly break the list of Cessna in the 'type' column
You'll get a gold star from your teacher and be mentioned in the Daily Mail dispatches.
I could genuinely talk any reasonably savvy person through this operation but would much prefer someone, such as a PPL holder, who has an idea of what is going on even if he/she doesn't understand all the banter.
As for logging it; fill yer boots. You'd have helped save a bunch of people so if it makes you feel good then write it in your logbook. You can't count the time towards any totals but it'll certainly break the list of Cessna in the 'type' column
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I reckon it would be easier with one of those big lots of automatics CAT III machines than the regional aircraft which don't have autoland.
I would agree about logging it. I don't think anyone would care and I suspect there would be quite a few CAA flight ops inpsectors would be more than happy to sign it off as "hours checked and certified" afterwards as well if you saved the day.
I would agree about logging it. I don't think anyone would care and I suspect there would be quite a few CAA flight ops inpsectors would be more than happy to sign it off as "hours checked and certified" afterwards as well if you saved the day.
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And of course this all depends on whether the aircraft actually is auto land capable as well as the airport you are arriving at?
No problems in Europe but would be going on holiday and at the end of a flight to Bongo land !
Pace
No problems in Europe but would be going on holiday and at the end of a flight to Bongo land !
Pace
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I landed successfully, smoothly but long in a 767 sim at the old Hong Kong airport.
Ended up in the sea.......
Ended up in the sea.......
I blamed my 1st officer. It didn't wash though - it was the late Capt Trubshaw. All he said was, 'I told you keep the nose up'
My barrel roll was quite successful though
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Wife lands plane after calling 911 - Video on NBCNews.com
BBC News - Elderly US woman lands plane after pilot-husband dies
A pilot's unqualified wife landed the plane after he died at the controls. BBC version includes the fact that the plane was down to 1 engine, probably due to fuel starvation...
BBC News - Elderly US woman lands plane after pilot-husband dies
A pilot's unqualified wife landed the plane after he died at the controls. BBC version includes the fact that the plane was down to 1 engine, probably due to fuel starvation...
Last edited by Dg800; 27th Sep 2012 at 08:26.
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A case of nothing is ever as it seems even the KingAir Pax was a single engine pilot oh well makes a good story and we never believe everything the media say do we ??
Regardless for an elderly lady with the stress of seeing her husband collapse she did a good job holding things together!
Pace
Regardless for an elderly lady with the stress of seeing her husband collapse she did a good job holding things together!
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 27th Sep 2012 at 08:54.
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I listened to the King Air sequence - it is interesting.
It seems to me the pilot did a really good job. A much better job than I would have expected for someone who really had no twin time, and an incredible job if he had not been a SEP pilot. I think it is fair to say that the "step up" from a single to a twin is quite big, if only for the first few hours.
It also struck me that ATC didn't respond in the way I would have expected. ATC appeared to frequently misunderstand the pilot's request when they seemed very clear to me. ATC also seemed to take a great deal longer to get rid of the other traffic.
ATC also didnt seem to take any account of whether a turn or climb would take the pilot into IMC, something I would have thought you would want to avoid at all cost given he was hand flying. Maybe they were that certain that IMC was not a risk.
It seems to me the pilot did a really good job. A much better job than I would have expected for someone who really had no twin time, and an incredible job if he had not been a SEP pilot. I think it is fair to say that the "step up" from a single to a twin is quite big, if only for the first few hours.
It also struck me that ATC didn't respond in the way I would have expected. ATC appeared to frequently misunderstand the pilot's request when they seemed very clear to me. ATC also seemed to take a great deal longer to get rid of the other traffic.
ATC also didnt seem to take any account of whether a turn or climb would take the pilot into IMC, something I would have thought you would want to avoid at all cost given he was hand flying. Maybe they were that certain that IMC was not a risk.
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I've landed, is the plane mine now?
I did a stint in a full motion trident sim and did quite well in that, on one occasion some professionals I was with got a bit pissed off with me greasing onto the runway and gave me 50 knot wind shear 100 feet up from the threshold. On that occasion I just managed to get it very quickly to the scene of the accident.
A more interesting question surely is this:
If the crew have in effect abandoned the ship, well they’ve died right? Then can I (as I could for a sea vessel) claim salvage of the aircraft in question, if so, it would be on e-bay the very next day.......
A more interesting question surely is this:
If the crew have in effect abandoned the ship, well they’ve died right? Then can I (as I could for a sea vessel) claim salvage of the aircraft in question, if so, it would be on e-bay the very next day.......
Avoid imitations
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Log the time? Certain airlines would send you a bill for the time flown, extra fuel used over company minimums and any repair costs.... 
Pompey till I die
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747 sim
3 PPLs had a go in the 747 sim up at Gatwick. We had an instructor and pretty much everyone wanted to know the question, could I land it if I had to with only being talked down?
All 3 of us landed on the runway safely.
Now that was decent flying conditions & CAVOK.
I found the 747 to be recognisable, stalls were recognisable from the high nose attitude and recovery was the same as a pa28.
Whilst I am sure a PPL could NOT hand fly IMC for any amount of time, certainly hand flying for a few minutes was possible.
I am sure if radio comms were established then a PPL could put it on the ground, using auto pilot. A PPL knows what the transponder looks like and how to squawk 7700 and if no reply to dial 121.5
From my brief 20 mins in the cockpit I could certainly recognise the transponder.
So a rather unscientific test suggests in good flying conditions a PPL could put it on the ground and people would survive.
All 3 of us landed on the runway safely.
Now that was decent flying conditions & CAVOK.
I found the 747 to be recognisable, stalls were recognisable from the high nose attitude and recovery was the same as a pa28.
Whilst I am sure a PPL could NOT hand fly IMC for any amount of time, certainly hand flying for a few minutes was possible.
I am sure if radio comms were established then a PPL could put it on the ground, using auto pilot. A PPL knows what the transponder looks like and how to squawk 7700 and if no reply to dial 121.5
From my brief 20 mins in the cockpit I could certainly recognise the transponder.
So a rather unscientific test suggests in good flying conditions a PPL could put it on the ground and people would survive.
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From a pratical point of view sims are very good at procedure training they are a computer game but a very usefull one. If you put a unqualified sim technician in the seat he will be able the out perform alot of crew especially in engine out procedures.
Real life real wx not a chance in hell unless you can use the computers to turn it into a game. If it is not a CAT III aircraft you would have to be extremely lucky to pull it off.
As a CAT turboprop Captain I wouldn't think I wouldn't be able to do it without autoland and I have getting on for 8000 instrument approaches under my belt in all sorts of wx.
The sim guys are always nice to the un-educated. A couple of button pushes and they can turn it into a completely different beast which they frequently do when the Captain is flying. You would think its a different aircraft when the FO is doing there bit.
Real life real wx not a chance in hell unless you can use the computers to turn it into a game. If it is not a CAT III aircraft you would have to be extremely lucky to pull it off.
As a CAT turboprop Captain I wouldn't think I wouldn't be able to do it without autoland and I have getting on for 8000 instrument approaches under my belt in all sorts of wx.
The sim guys are always nice to the un-educated. A couple of button pushes and they can turn it into a completely different beast which they frequently do when the Captain is flying. You would think its a different aircraft when the FO is doing there bit.
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They are different! for a start and this is a big important bit the sim has no inertia the real aircraft and you have tons of it.
Sim really are glorified MSFS with a real cockpit and they go up and down and left and right.
I would concur with MJ. He and I might make a safe landing if we were not fighting over who had control
Pace
Sim really are glorified MSFS with a real cockpit and they go up and down and left and right.
I would concur with MJ. He and I might make a safe landing if we were not fighting over who had control
Pace