HMRC fuel drawback check - now what?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HMRC fuel drawback check - now what?
Never letting an opportunity to get money from a government go to waste, I duly filled in the HO060 form a while ago, after a flight from the UK, and received a check (actually a "Payable Order Remittance Advice") in the post today. For the extravagant sum of £32.80 UKP. They even spelled it out for me. Thirty-Two Pounds And 80 Pence.
Being of the internet and credit card generation, this check-thing is a first for me. So I just stopped by my bank (another first - I actually went inside the building instead of halting at the ATM) on my way to the supermarket and found (from a very helpful guy at a desk - yet another first) that it will cost me at least 13 euros and a bit for them to cash the check. That's about a third of its value...
So to the collective wisdom of this forum, two questions:
1. Anybody has got a better idea to cash this from the Netherlands?
2. I'll probably be in the UK around Christmas time again. If I walk into a random bank (or post office?) in the UK, will they simply convert the check into cash immediately and for free, or will there be some sort of commission and possibly a wait time as well? And if so, how much approximately?
(And for the bonus question - why doesn't HMRC simply have an option on the HO060 form that lets you enter an IBAN number or credit card number? Did somebody forget to tell them that, yes, indeed, this is the 21st century?)
Being of the internet and credit card generation, this check-thing is a first for me. So I just stopped by my bank (another first - I actually went inside the building instead of halting at the ATM) on my way to the supermarket and found (from a very helpful guy at a desk - yet another first) that it will cost me at least 13 euros and a bit for them to cash the check. That's about a third of its value...
So to the collective wisdom of this forum, two questions:
1. Anybody has got a better idea to cash this from the Netherlands?
2. I'll probably be in the UK around Christmas time again. If I walk into a random bank (or post office?) in the UK, will they simply convert the check into cash immediately and for free, or will there be some sort of commission and possibly a wait time as well? And if so, how much approximately?
(And for the bonus question - why doesn't HMRC simply have an option on the HO060 form that lets you enter an IBAN number or credit card number? Did somebody forget to tell them that, yes, indeed, this is the 21st century?)
Last edited by BackPacker; 14th Sep 2012 at 18:33.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doing foreign payments is actually nontrivial in the UK.
I can send you money from my UK bank but I pay £25 in charges. Obviously I don't use that account for sending foreign payments!
Some company accounts also don't work well. We have been with the Bank of Scotland for yonks and their foreign payments system is totally crap. We have now moved to HSBC who have a smooth online system, but they still charge us about £6 for it, whereas writing a cheque costs us only £0.50 or so.
This is one reason why I always tell people to pay up their dues at European airports, even if told they will get the invoice later. The invoice may be for say €15 but most UK people have no means of paying it anywhere near economically. And many/most such airports don't accept credit cards (which is truly stupid, but is a rather German thing).
I can send you money from my UK bank but I pay £25 in charges. Obviously I don't use that account for sending foreign payments!
Some company accounts also don't work well. We have been with the Bank of Scotland for yonks and their foreign payments system is totally crap. We have now moved to HSBC who have a smooth online system, but they still charge us about £6 for it, whereas writing a cheque costs us only £0.50 or so.
This is one reason why I always tell people to pay up their dues at European airports, even if told they will get the invoice later. The invoice may be for say €15 but most UK people have no means of paying it anywhere near economically. And many/most such airports don't accept credit cards (which is truly stupid, but is a rather German thing).
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think those things are made "payee only", but if not and if you can sign it over to me and I can bank it without charge, I will send you €30 cash in an envelope.
Let me know if you don't get a better offer.
I would hate to see HMRC keep something that could go somewhere else.
For future reference, if you include a letter with your bank details in the same envelope as the HO60, they will pay directly into a bank account.
Let me know if you don't get a better offer.
I would hate to see HMRC keep something that could go somewhere else.
For future reference, if you include a letter with your bank details in the same envelope as the HO60, they will pay directly into a bank account.
Last edited by jollyrog; 14th Sep 2012 at 19:30.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jollyrog, thanks for the offer. I might take you up on it this time but that's obviously not the way to go for future occasions.
Can you confirm that you can cash such a check with no charge, even if you don't hold an account with the bank you happen to walk into? Or does this only work for the banks own customers? Because the easiest solution for me would obviously be to cash it myself when I'm in the UK later this year.
Furthermore, if I enclose a letter with my bank details (IBAN number most important, obviously) will they pay directly to my bank account even if it's a foreign one?
And yes, the check is marked "Account Payee Only". I have no idea what the implications of that sentence is.
Can you confirm that you can cash such a check with no charge, even if you don't hold an account with the bank you happen to walk into? Or does this only work for the banks own customers? Because the easiest solution for me would obviously be to cash it myself when I'm in the UK later this year.
Furthermore, if I enclose a letter with my bank details (IBAN number most important, obviously) will they pay directly to my bank account even if it's a foreign one?
And yes, the check is marked "Account Payee Only". I have no idea what the implications of that sentence is.
Last edited by BackPacker; 14th Sep 2012 at 19:42.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And yes, the check is marked "Account Payee Only". I have no idea what the implications of that sentence is
"I sign this cheque over to jollyrog, please pay him [signature]"
If a cheque is marked "a/c payee only", this is not possible. I must admit, it's a very old fashioned practice and clearly subject to massive fraud, so it's almost unheard of these days.
Plan B - why not call HMRC, explain your circumstances and ask them to cancel the cheque and pay direct to a UK bank account instead? I will give you my bank details, then send you whatever I get in cash, less the postage. Can't say fairer than that.
Worth a try, if you trust me.
Last edited by jollyrog; 14th Sep 2012 at 19:48.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jollyrog, it's not a matter of trust but a matter of principle. I'm trying to figure out how I can get this money in my pocket or bank account without going through a volunteer intermediary or by losing about a third of it in costs.
Heck, the whole process has given me such amusement so far that I would be willing to frame the check right here and now, and hang it on the wall as a future reminder not to start drawback processes like this for such trivial amounts...
Heck, the whole process has given me such amusement so far that I would be willing to frame the check right here and now, and hang it on the wall as a future reminder not to start drawback processes like this for such trivial amounts...
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: bath/bristol
Age: 68
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope your payable order was for the right amount. I sent in my first HO60 claiming £53.54 a few months ago. In due course I got a payable order back for £50.90. There was no explanation of why it was less than I claimed. I might have made a mistake, but the calculation is not that complicated. It is not worth the effort of chasing it for that amount but I hope HMRC are not doing it to everyone and pocketing the difference!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope your payable order was for the right amount. I sent in my first HO60 claiming £53.54 a few months ago. In due course I got a payable order back for £50.90
I wrote them a letter once after a few incorrect submissions and they just recalculated and paid me what I was owed.
They're quite efficient and no nonsense. It's a good service, especially considering it's free money.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can pay a foreign currency cheque into your bank.
It has to be 'negotiated' which in practice means a charge. We used to pay about a tenner, but we were banking cheques for lots of e.g. Swiss Francs.
It's not a good system for small payments...
Reminds me of some scam where somebody advertised porno movies. The tapes were never mailed and people got a letter saying there is a production problem and enclosed is a refund cheque. The cheque was drawn on an account called something like The Porn Movie Company, which almost nobody would take to their bank. But it was totally legal.
It has to be 'negotiated' which in practice means a charge. We used to pay about a tenner, but we were banking cheques for lots of e.g. Swiss Francs.
It's not a good system for small payments...
Reminds me of some scam where somebody advertised porno movies. The tapes were never mailed and people got a letter saying there is a production problem and enclosed is a refund cheque. The cheque was drawn on an account called something like The Porn Movie Company, which almost nobody would take to their bank. But it was totally legal.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Backpacker, I have the same problem in Belgium.
The solution is to fly more to the UK so you can save up the drawback over a maximum of two years, then it becomes a reasonable sum and the bank charges stay the same. On the other hand, there are airfields where you can get Avgas with the duty already deducted (Southend?), or others where duty is non-existant (C.I.)
The solution is to fly more to the UK so you can save up the drawback over a maximum of two years, then it becomes a reasonable sum and the bank charges stay the same. On the other hand, there are airfields where you can get Avgas with the duty already deducted (Southend?), or others where duty is non-existant (C.I.)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dirk, actually it says on the check that it has to be cashed within six months.
I happen to have a job that regularly takes me to foreign places, but the UK is not in the plans for the next six months. Only a private trip between Christmas and New Years Eve, but we'll be hiking so not staying in a single place. Hence the "what happens if I walk into a random bank" question. (Have to add that I might be a bit grubby, be in outdoor clothing and will be carrying a 20-kg backpack if that makes any difference to the service...)
I happen to have a job that regularly takes me to foreign places, but the UK is not in the plans for the next six months. Only a private trip between Christmas and New Years Eve, but we'll be hiking so not staying in a single place. Hence the "what happens if I walk into a random bank" question. (Have to add that I might be a bit grubby, be in outdoor clothing and will be carrying a 20-kg backpack if that makes any difference to the service...)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Backpacker, what I meant to say is that you can hold your receipts for up to two years until you have a reasonable amount before sending your form in, you can group many flights on one form. My last drawback was something like 500 GBP, then the absurd bank charges are more in proportion.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 49
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just in case you didn't know - and probably not applicable in this case anyway - HMRC will pay the funds directly into your bank account instead of sending a cheque.
Just include a covering letter with your bank details.
Just include a covering letter with your bank details.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Backpacker
In you position I would just pay the cheque into the bank and accept the fact that the amount you end up with will be 100% more than you would get out of any other EEC state.
Pompey till I die
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Guildford
Age: 51
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's tough
Reminds me of getting cheques for my 21st birthday, from my family in UK, which I had to pay into my Dutch PostBank account. Total nightmare, I was so skint and it took 4 weeks for them to clear and into the bargain I only got a fraction of the money. Waited a month before going out and celebrating my 21st in style in the metropolis that is Ridderkerk.
Unfortunately there's no easy way around it, unless you have a Brit to cash them for you and send the dosh.
Unfortunately there's no easy way around it, unless you have a Brit to cash them for you and send the dosh.
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also understand that even a crossed cheque can be endorsed and paid into another account.
This is how the cowboy outfits which give you ripoff-rate loans until you get the pay cheque operate (I understand, never having used them
).
Anyway, I know for a fact (from some of my cheques having been mistakenly cashed by somebody else, after being sent to the wrong recipient) that you can pay in any cheque into your account if the clerk at the bank is busy and doesn't look at the name on it. No checks (no pun intended) are done on the cheque after that point. Only the amount on it is read (by OCR, etc).
This is how the cowboy outfits which give you ripoff-rate loans until you get the pay cheque operate (I understand, never having used them
).Anyway, I know for a fact (from some of my cheques having been mistakenly cashed by somebody else, after being sent to the wrong recipient) that you can pay in any cheque into your account if the clerk at the bank is busy and doesn't look at the name on it. No checks (no pun intended) are done on the cheque after that point. Only the amount on it is read (by OCR, etc).
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It does seem that you can return it and nominate a different payee:
PAYE91030 - Reconcile individual: overpayments: customer unable to cash a payable order (Action Guide)
PAYE91030 - Reconcile individual: overpayments: customer unable to cash a payable order (Action Guide)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, update. What I did was mail HMRC about this, including the check number and my (Dutch) bank account number (IBAN number).
Heard nothing for a while, then a single e-mail "we're still working on it" and found the money deposited in my bank account yesterday. Minus five euros in cost which presumably goes to my bank.
So it takes a while (my mail to HMRC was sent Sep 19, the "we're still working on this" mail on Oct 26 and the money arrived Dec 7th) but this proves that HMRC is able to deposit money directly in a foreign bank account.
Next time I'm going to wait until I have a few HO60 forms to send off in batch, and include a cover letter with my bank details straight away.
Lesson learned. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Heard nothing for a while, then a single e-mail "we're still working on it" and found the money deposited in my bank account yesterday. Minus five euros in cost which presumably goes to my bank.
So it takes a while (my mail to HMRC was sent Sep 19, the "we're still working on this" mail on Oct 26 and the money arrived Dec 7th) but this proves that HMRC is able to deposit money directly in a foreign bank account.
Next time I'm going to wait until I have a few HO60 forms to send off in batch, and include a cover letter with my bank details straight away.
Lesson learned. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Last edited by BackPacker; 8th Dec 2012 at 19:27.