To upgrade or not to upgrade?
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Well, I'm finishing my IR in my own plane, so no selling before that anyway. And then I don't want to be without an aircraft for too long because that's when the rut starts to set in. I get antsy when she's away on her annual even, for no particular reason. It's not that I'd planned to go anywhere, I just don't like the feeling that I can't
. I could always rent if I sold it - that might be an option, but hopefully a short term one. But for now I think best is to keep her and stay away from fancy and costly upgrades as much as possible and save some money for an eventual upgrade later on. This means no paint job and no O/H of engines.
. I could always rent if I sold it - that might be an option, but hopefully a short term one. But for now I think best is to keep her and stay away from fancy and costly upgrades as much as possible and save some money for an eventual upgrade later on. This means no paint job and no O/H of engines.
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Well I think that is a wise decision. What is that saying about the grass always being greener.
Mine is also away getting more maintenance, after its annual. The guy did more damage, than fix it........
So, it has been away since 26th July, will not get her back until first week October, and I also require new paint, because the idiot who did the annual, messed up on a paint job I required. The joys, and more money.
I however, have decided to go back to Cub flying, aeros in a Stolp Starduster, and back to some of the flying I really love, paying by the hour for it.
Cant wait to get the Bonanza back, however, until then
Look forward to your future updates, take care
Mine is also away getting more maintenance, after its annual. The guy did more damage, than fix it........
So, it has been away since 26th July, will not get her back until first week October, and I also require new paint, because the idiot who did the annual, messed up on a paint job I required. The joys, and more money.
I however, have decided to go back to Cub flying, aeros in a Stolp Starduster, and back to some of the flying I really love, paying by the hour for it.
Cant wait to get the Bonanza back, however, until then
Look forward to your future updates, take care
Last edited by maxred; 4th Sep 2012 at 19:04.
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After almost 3 months at KHHR getting probed and touched un-gentlemanlike in all her cavities, the old girl took to the skies for a brief test flight today. She was happy to be up basking in the California sun and purred like a kitten with her newly overhauled prop hubs and cylinders. New metalwork on her tail feathers as well, so she shook those for everyone to see. No squawks. It was touch and go for old faithful there for a while, but it's not as easy to kill an old 520 as one thinks!
Personally, I was going crazy not flying for so long, so it was very nice to be back in the saddle again, so to speak. Now, I'll just have to rob a bank to be able to afford theat bl**dy annual....
Getting her tail cone attached just before test flight. There were some damages in the tail previously undiscovered from a tail strike by the
former owner that needed some metal work.
BTW, there was a brand new Skycatcher in at the "garage" as there's a new AD for a reinforcement on the spar/strut attachment point that needs complying with... It's a 30hr job to fix. So it's not only old aircraft that cost money - even brand new ones get it. Aircrafts are not like cars - you are on your own when you buy them - even when they're brand new.
Personally, I was going crazy not flying for so long, so it was very nice to be back in the saddle again, so to speak. Now, I'll just have to rob a bank to be able to afford theat bl**dy annual....
Getting her tail cone attached just before test flight. There were some damages in the tail previously undiscovered from a tail strike by the
former owner that needed some metal work.
BTW, there was a brand new Skycatcher in at the "garage" as there's a new AD for a reinforcement on the spar/strut attachment point that needs complying with... It's a 30hr job to fix. So it's not only old aircraft that cost money - even brand new ones get it. Aircrafts are not like cars - you are on your own when you buy them - even when they're brand new.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 20th Nov 2012 at 03:38.
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It has been a bit painful. The wait more than anything else.
AD's that needed complying with, dye penetrant on the main spar etc. Then the prop hubs. Hartzell have made them into a Service Bulletin that the prop shops are not allowed to comply with if they want to stay certified by Hartzell... All just an evil scam to drum up sales for new props and hubs. Thankfully, we found one who was willing to comply with just the inspection and overhaul. Then when the props were finally back after a month and a half away, they find dodgy repair work in the tail from an old tail strike. I was not too happy about this late discovery, because that would mean god knows how much longer before I got her back. I grumbled quite vocally, and thankfully they did a quick repair job. Metal work is always the worst, because it takes ages to do.
But all seems to be good now, and she flew very nicely with her newly overhauled high spark magnetos.
AD's that needed complying with, dye penetrant on the main spar etc. Then the prop hubs. Hartzell have made them into a Service Bulletin that the prop shops are not allowed to comply with if they want to stay certified by Hartzell... All just an evil scam to drum up sales for new props and hubs. Thankfully, we found one who was willing to comply with just the inspection and overhaul. Then when the props were finally back after a month and a half away, they find dodgy repair work in the tail from an old tail strike. I was not too happy about this late discovery, because that would mean god knows how much longer before I got her back. I grumbled quite vocally, and thankfully they did a quick repair job. Metal work is always the worst, because it takes ages to do.
But all seems to be good now, and she flew very nicely with her newly overhauled high spark magnetos.
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So it's not only old aircraft that cost money - even brand new ones get it. Aircrafts are not like cars - you are on your own when you buy them - even when they're brand new.
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Goldeneaglepilot - Post # 8
What, this one here
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...QdGTwhv1v9bnRw
Did the new owner actually receive it ?
What, this one here
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...QdGTwhv1v9bnRw
Did the new owner actually receive it ?
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The unfortunate loss of reason forced upon our dear writer by a gaggle of Aerostars.
The Aerostar fever has hit a new high.
I spent two days early this week in Dothan, AL at Aerostar World, Inc just being near Aerostars. Sitting in them, smelling them, touching them, asking the mechanics about them, asking anyone about them. I fell asleep at the motel each night with the POH in my hand, like a complete schoolboy after his first kiss. Thankfully, the owner Don Smith is a veteran Aerostar instructor and A&P and was very patient with all my silly questions and no amount of them fazed him.
What could possibly be better than a gaggle of Aerostars on the ramp?
The particular object of my affection is N79SR. She's got a ratty interior, engines over TBO, props that need overhauling, avionics from hell etc. But she has a price I can almost, just almost, afford. I came to see her and I only had eyes for her.
Avionics from the Victorian era.
The others dolled themselves up, pranced around and lifted their wings trying to get my attention, but I knew they were gold diggers and troublemakers. They were beauties, for sure, like models, but you just knew they'd take you to the cleaners and escape with the yoga teacher. I could see through their fleeting youthful good looks like a bat with a Raytheon radar in his back pocket.
This is one of the prancing 700's. Immaculate, but an expensive date.
79SR was true. She was real. A divorcee and a little bit neglected, but you could tell she'd been a beauty in her younger days with a good heart. Plus she had a lot of the good core stuff you needed - de-ice boots, hot props, pressurized, electric windshield, inconel exhausts, some Machen conversions and a brand new annual. Hell, even an old Bendix weather radar. She didn't have the intercoolers unfortunately, but they can always be added later. 3500hrs, which is not much for an old executive transport lady.
Would she be my new companion? N79SR is a cute 1979 Aerostar 601P in accountant/dentist white. With the ubiquitous midriff accountant/dentist trim line in two-colour.
I was smitten. Yes, I can hear you all - it does make more sense to buy one that's already done up, where the engines are not past TBO and all that. But only if you can afford that outright - for me it makes more sense to get in cheaper and upgrade as you go. Another thing is that California levies a so called 'user tax' on aircraft. It's a bit like stamp duty in the UK on a house - a one time sales tax due on purchase. It's a substantial amount - 8% of value (bloody bastards). So it makes more sense to buy cheap and then upgrade within California, rather than buy a dolled up one for more and get stung immediately.
Mind you, I haven't bought her yet. Just seriously considering it. I fall asleep dreaming of Aerostars each night, so I'm afraid I have the fever quite bad at the moment. Hopefully it will pass. Maybe if I lie down and drink a big scotch it will go away... But do I want it to pass?
I convinced Don to let me fly N79SR back to Wichita Falls, TX with him to pick my repaired Commander up. It would cost me more than to airline it there, but it would be much more convenient and most importantly - I would get to fly her. He could teach me one or two tricks on the way. Said and done. Fuelled up and fired up. Passing trough the clouds going out, the airspeed, VSI and altimeter were motionless in solid IMC. Don switched to the alternate air intake without much difference. Cool as a cucumber he said "We got some water in the static lines. No big deal, will drain that when I get back". I would probably have fallen out of the sky inverted if that had happened to me! Thankfully we broke out on top soon after. This meant I didn't get any reliable climb or takeoff speeds for N79SR, which would have been good. We had a headwind all the way, but got a pretty solid 170-180kts depending on winds. Oil consumption was just 1qt for the whole 4.3hr trip to Wichita Falls and pressurization worked fine, so the engines seem to be in pretty good shape. There are no visible oil leaks at the bottom of cowlings either.
Humming along at 180kts on 32gal/hr over Texas.
N79SR doesn't have the GAMI injectors, so one can't really run her Lean Of Peak. Fuel consumption was 32gals/hr, but with GAMI's the fuel can be dropped down to 25gph for a TAS of about 200kts. Like I always harp on about - that's real fuel economy for a twin. That's what my Commander burns going 140kts and that's almost what some Corvallises/Cirrii and souped up Bonanzas burn...
I got two landings in, and they just feel rock solid these airplanes. You drive them down and they just land with a firm thump - like a little jetliner. Don't want them to get slow, so it's blue line all the way. Around 110-120kts for approach and pattern and then reduce a bit on final and finally walk the throttles off in the flare. I was surprised at how effective the Fowler flaps were. They don't look big, but up close they're almost 2/3 of the wing. Add to this the pushrod controls, and you have a direct feel like I've never experienced. They feel very direct and tight.
I topped off Don and he took off on his own back to Alabama in the night. I checked him later on Flightaware and he'd flown the 690nm back in 2hrs 59mins - average of 228kts at 15000ft. He got to Alabama just a little later than I got to my destination 228nm away in the Commander...
Don was one of the early employees at Ted Smith Aerostar in the mid 70's before Piper bought them. He's got 17500hrs in Aerostars alone and has been around them all his life - he only does Aerostars. Great guy.
A prebuy was made by one of the members at the Aerostar Owners Association for another buyer that didn't end up buying her in the end. He said it's a solid little plane with known quantities - you know you need to do the engines at some point, the props need to be done pretty much immediately and the turbos should at least be looked at. Just like it said on the tin. No mysteries. So, will it be me and her? Too early to tell. I want to have her, Don wants me to have her, but I'm still a couple of pennies short and I don't want to borrow. But let's hope she's still waiting for me with water in her static lines when I find that penny!
I spent two days early this week in Dothan, AL at Aerostar World, Inc just being near Aerostars. Sitting in them, smelling them, touching them, asking the mechanics about them, asking anyone about them. I fell asleep at the motel each night with the POH in my hand, like a complete schoolboy after his first kiss. Thankfully, the owner Don Smith is a veteran Aerostar instructor and A&P and was very patient with all my silly questions and no amount of them fazed him.
What could possibly be better than a gaggle of Aerostars on the ramp?
The particular object of my affection is N79SR. She's got a ratty interior, engines over TBO, props that need overhauling, avionics from hell etc. But she has a price I can almost, just almost, afford. I came to see her and I only had eyes for her.
Avionics from the Victorian era.
The others dolled themselves up, pranced around and lifted their wings trying to get my attention, but I knew they were gold diggers and troublemakers. They were beauties, for sure, like models, but you just knew they'd take you to the cleaners and escape with the yoga teacher. I could see through their fleeting youthful good looks like a bat with a Raytheon radar in his back pocket.
This is one of the prancing 700's. Immaculate, but an expensive date.
79SR was true. She was real. A divorcee and a little bit neglected, but you could tell she'd been a beauty in her younger days with a good heart. Plus she had a lot of the good core stuff you needed - de-ice boots, hot props, pressurized, electric windshield, inconel exhausts, some Machen conversions and a brand new annual. Hell, even an old Bendix weather radar. She didn't have the intercoolers unfortunately, but they can always be added later. 3500hrs, which is not much for an old executive transport lady.
Would she be my new companion? N79SR is a cute 1979 Aerostar 601P in accountant/dentist white. With the ubiquitous midriff accountant/dentist trim line in two-colour.
I was smitten. Yes, I can hear you all - it does make more sense to buy one that's already done up, where the engines are not past TBO and all that. But only if you can afford that outright - for me it makes more sense to get in cheaper and upgrade as you go. Another thing is that California levies a so called 'user tax' on aircraft. It's a bit like stamp duty in the UK on a house - a one time sales tax due on purchase. It's a substantial amount - 8% of value (bloody bastards). So it makes more sense to buy cheap and then upgrade within California, rather than buy a dolled up one for more and get stung immediately.
Mind you, I haven't bought her yet. Just seriously considering it. I fall asleep dreaming of Aerostars each night, so I'm afraid I have the fever quite bad at the moment. Hopefully it will pass. Maybe if I lie down and drink a big scotch it will go away... But do I want it to pass?
I convinced Don to let me fly N79SR back to Wichita Falls, TX with him to pick my repaired Commander up. It would cost me more than to airline it there, but it would be much more convenient and most importantly - I would get to fly her. He could teach me one or two tricks on the way. Said and done. Fuelled up and fired up. Passing trough the clouds going out, the airspeed, VSI and altimeter were motionless in solid IMC. Don switched to the alternate air intake without much difference. Cool as a cucumber he said "We got some water in the static lines. No big deal, will drain that when I get back". I would probably have fallen out of the sky inverted if that had happened to me! Thankfully we broke out on top soon after. This meant I didn't get any reliable climb or takeoff speeds for N79SR, which would have been good. We had a headwind all the way, but got a pretty solid 170-180kts depending on winds. Oil consumption was just 1qt for the whole 4.3hr trip to Wichita Falls and pressurization worked fine, so the engines seem to be in pretty good shape. There are no visible oil leaks at the bottom of cowlings either.
Humming along at 180kts on 32gal/hr over Texas.
N79SR doesn't have the GAMI injectors, so one can't really run her Lean Of Peak. Fuel consumption was 32gals/hr, but with GAMI's the fuel can be dropped down to 25gph for a TAS of about 200kts. Like I always harp on about - that's real fuel economy for a twin. That's what my Commander burns going 140kts and that's almost what some Corvallises/Cirrii and souped up Bonanzas burn...
I got two landings in, and they just feel rock solid these airplanes. You drive them down and they just land with a firm thump - like a little jetliner. Don't want them to get slow, so it's blue line all the way. Around 110-120kts for approach and pattern and then reduce a bit on final and finally walk the throttles off in the flare. I was surprised at how effective the Fowler flaps were. They don't look big, but up close they're almost 2/3 of the wing. Add to this the pushrod controls, and you have a direct feel like I've never experienced. They feel very direct and tight.
I topped off Don and he took off on his own back to Alabama in the night. I checked him later on Flightaware and he'd flown the 690nm back in 2hrs 59mins - average of 228kts at 15000ft. He got to Alabama just a little later than I got to my destination 228nm away in the Commander...
Don was one of the early employees at Ted Smith Aerostar in the mid 70's before Piper bought them. He's got 17500hrs in Aerostars alone and has been around them all his life - he only does Aerostars. Great guy.
A prebuy was made by one of the members at the Aerostar Owners Association for another buyer that didn't end up buying her in the end. He said it's a solid little plane with known quantities - you know you need to do the engines at some point, the props need to be done pretty much immediately and the turbos should at least be looked at. Just like it said on the tin. No mysteries. So, will it be me and her? Too early to tell. I want to have her, Don wants me to have her, but I'm still a couple of pennies short and I don't want to borrow. But let's hope she's still waiting for me with water in her static lines when I find that penny!
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 23rd Feb 2013 at 05:38.
Oh Boy ! You are in trouble. It seems you have totally fallen for that sexy thing that just screams "look at me I am so HOT ".
At the risk of being a crust curmudgeon killjoy a few points to think about.
1) 200 kts at 25 GPH.....Ain't going to happen. Your block fuel flow ( ie wheels up to wheels down) will average 38 - 40 GPH
2) Engines over TBO owe you nothing so you have to be prepared to pay for an overhaul after every flight. For a TIO 540 you are looking at $ 65 to 70 K per side
3) Deice is a mandatory for this class of aircraft. If the boots are in poor shape you are looking at 15 to 20 K to replace them
4) Radar is a mandatory item. Looks like you have the original unit. If it works it won't for long and will cost lots to repair. A new one is $ 20 K
5) A good autopilot is a mandatory item. Looks like you have the original Century 4 system. The Aerostar I used to fly had one. Worked great for years until it did not. After spending $ 11 K over 18 months trying to get it to work the company gave up and put an STEC in it for $21 K
6) You as a relatively low time pilot would crazy not to do a full initial type training course at SIMCOM. 7 K and then 3 K per year for annual recurrent training
7) Insurance will likely be extremely expensive for the first few years. I would not be surprised if the premium is 4 times higher than you AC 520.
Bottom line is it is totally a buyers market for piston twins. Prices are still dropping and supply greatly exceeds demand. What you want is an Aerostar that was owned by a guy like you. That is a guy who has flown their airplane alot and fixed everything as they went along. I bet you have dropped 70 + K on your AC 520 but it will still sell for probably close to what you paid for it. The buyer however will get a pretty good deal. That is the kind of Aerostar you want, one that has had everything fixed.
With respect to N79SR I can bet what its flying history is. Probably pretty regular use until maybe 5 to 8 years ago and then less and less per year with less and less maintenance until the owner finally decides to sell. Airplanes that get regular use generally don't have water in the static system....
Pay now or pay later but you will pay. I think it is always cheaper to shop at the upper end of the market rather than go for a fixer upper.
Sorry for the buzz kill
At the risk of being a crust curmudgeon killjoy a few points to think about.
1) 200 kts at 25 GPH.....Ain't going to happen. Your block fuel flow ( ie wheels up to wheels down) will average 38 - 40 GPH
2) Engines over TBO owe you nothing so you have to be prepared to pay for an overhaul after every flight. For a TIO 540 you are looking at $ 65 to 70 K per side
3) Deice is a mandatory for this class of aircraft. If the boots are in poor shape you are looking at 15 to 20 K to replace them
4) Radar is a mandatory item. Looks like you have the original unit. If it works it won't for long and will cost lots to repair. A new one is $ 20 K
5) A good autopilot is a mandatory item. Looks like you have the original Century 4 system. The Aerostar I used to fly had one. Worked great for years until it did not. After spending $ 11 K over 18 months trying to get it to work the company gave up and put an STEC in it for $21 K
6) You as a relatively low time pilot would crazy not to do a full initial type training course at SIMCOM. 7 K and then 3 K per year for annual recurrent training
7) Insurance will likely be extremely expensive for the first few years. I would not be surprised if the premium is 4 times higher than you AC 520.
Bottom line is it is totally a buyers market for piston twins. Prices are still dropping and supply greatly exceeds demand. What you want is an Aerostar that was owned by a guy like you. That is a guy who has flown their airplane alot and fixed everything as they went along. I bet you have dropped 70 + K on your AC 520 but it will still sell for probably close to what you paid for it. The buyer however will get a pretty good deal. That is the kind of Aerostar you want, one that has had everything fixed.
With respect to N79SR I can bet what its flying history is. Probably pretty regular use until maybe 5 to 8 years ago and then less and less per year with less and less maintenance until the owner finally decides to sell. Airplanes that get regular use generally don't have water in the static system....
Pay now or pay later but you will pay. I think it is always cheaper to shop at the upper end of the market rather than go for a fixer upper.
Sorry for the buzz kill
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Where's your sense of fun, BPF?
Don has an initial and it's approved by all insurers. 4 day ground and then flying. It's $2600, so not bad. At SimCom and FlightSafety you pay for the real estate, the crisp white shirts and the donuts that accompany your Nespresso coffee.
You're right - she hasn't been flown a lot the last 10 years. About 100hrs/year, with the last 2 years almost nothing. She'd been sitting on the ramp for a few months before we took her up, so has been rained and weathered on. Aircraft that don't fly much are never the best behaved ones, but I don't have the option of buying the completely mint 700 Superstar II with factory overhauls. I could never afford that.
My engine o/h prices are quite considerably different from yours, but I'm not arguing over the other items. Probably about right. Autopilots, radars and boots are all nice, but they're not essential for basic flight, so can be deferred to later if in a pinch.
One thing is for sure - the engines will cost less to o/h than then orphaned GO-435's I run now...
Don has an initial and it's approved by all insurers. 4 day ground and then flying. It's $2600, so not bad. At SimCom and FlightSafety you pay for the real estate, the crisp white shirts and the donuts that accompany your Nespresso coffee.
You're right - she hasn't been flown a lot the last 10 years. About 100hrs/year, with the last 2 years almost nothing. She'd been sitting on the ramp for a few months before we took her up, so has been rained and weathered on. Aircraft that don't fly much are never the best behaved ones, but I don't have the option of buying the completely mint 700 Superstar II with factory overhauls. I could never afford that.
My engine o/h prices are quite considerably different from yours, but I'm not arguing over the other items. Probably about right. Autopilots, radars and boots are all nice, but they're not essential for basic flight, so can be deferred to later if in a pinch.
One thing is for sure - the engines will cost less to o/h than then orphaned GO-435's I run now...
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 25th Feb 2013 at 05:29.
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One thing is for sure - the engines will cost less to o/h than then orphaned GO-435's I run now...
Stand by for a new Aerostar thread. Adam, I am sure it will be as entertaining as your superb AC thread.
In a couple of years time BPF will post, the old.....I told you so
I would never do that.
My intent was not to say "Don't buy an Aerostar" just a few cautions about buying this class of aircraft from the bottom of the pile. Over 30 + years of GA flying I have seen first hand the perils of this strategy.
As for practicality.......well I own a Nanchang CJ6, a totally impractical but supremely fun airplane and I tell everyone I spend most of my money on My Woman, Good Red Wine and Airplanes, what's left I spend foolishly.
My intent was not to say "Don't buy an Aerostar" just a few cautions about buying this class of aircraft from the bottom of the pile. Over 30 + years of GA flying I have seen first hand the perils of this strategy.
As for practicality.......well I own a Nanchang CJ6, a totally impractical but supremely fun airplane and I tell everyone I spend most of my money on My Woman, Good Red Wine and Airplanes, what's left I spend foolishly.
My advice is take the initial with your guy and then do the recurrent in the SIM.
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Well, I've signed the dotted line now, so there's obviously a sucker born every minute. A brand new world of pain has now opened its fanged jaws as the keeper of a complex thoroughbred. I can see the bills already. Forcing me towards insanity's door is the fact that I won't get her until end of May, so I have plenty of time to stew in my lack of judgement. But hey, let's go out with a bang and what good does savings do you anyway? Who needs a house when you can sleep in the plane?
Plan is to get her home soon after and then get enough training to satisfy the insurers and finalise my IR on the over TBO engines, and then towards fall overhaul both of them on the cheap. Engines alone can be done for about $18K/piece - I've gotten quotes in. Then on top of that comes turbo's (two on each engine) for about $1500/turbo and then magnetos/hoses etc. A big chunk, but actually a lot cheaper than doing the GO-435's on the Commander.
I'm sure you will hear more about my ordeals as they progress.
A new money pit has reared its pretty face, a 1978 601P. Welcome to the family.
Plan is to get her home soon after and then get enough training to satisfy the insurers and finalise my IR on the over TBO engines, and then towards fall overhaul both of them on the cheap. Engines alone can be done for about $18K/piece - I've gotten quotes in. Then on top of that comes turbo's (two on each engine) for about $1500/turbo and then magnetos/hoses etc. A big chunk, but actually a lot cheaper than doing the GO-435's on the Commander.
I'm sure you will hear more about my ordeals as they progress.
A new money pit has reared its pretty face, a 1978 601P. Welcome to the family.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 17th Apr 2013 at 05:19.
Good luck. Aerostars fly as great as they look.
As for the costs, well all the good things in life cost money and I never regretted any of the money I have spent on my airplanes
As for the costs, well all the good things in life cost money and I never regretted any of the money I have spent on my airplanes
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Did you ask the wife?
I would have to stump up for numerous new kitchens etc etc.
Good luck, she looKs fabulous, and will no doubt bring this whole forum endless hours of financial angst!!!!!!!
Best of of luck and very happy and successful flying
I would have to stump up for numerous new kitchens etc etc.
Good luck, she looKs fabulous, and will no doubt bring this whole forum endless hours of financial angst!!!!!!!
Best of of luck and very happy and successful flying