Elstree again
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: london
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elstree again
Hello again,
Firstly, thanks to all of you who have replied and given their advice about Cabair. The replies seem split about 50/50 with some praising them to the heavens and others erm... less impressed!
As I said, my looking at Elstree is because it's less than 5 minutes by car from where I live and being exceptionally lazy, it seemed like a good idea. If they're a little more expensive than many other places but give very good training then I think that's still a plus.
How about a different angle. What is the social scene like at Elstree? Is it all strictly business-like or is it a bit more laid-back?
Are there any recommendations for other schools within a reasonable distance of Elstree, say within 1/2 to 3/4 hours travelling?
Thanks again.
LPlate.
Firstly, thanks to all of you who have replied and given their advice about Cabair. The replies seem split about 50/50 with some praising them to the heavens and others erm... less impressed!
As I said, my looking at Elstree is because it's less than 5 minutes by car from where I live and being exceptionally lazy, it seemed like a good idea. If they're a little more expensive than many other places but give very good training then I think that's still a plus.
How about a different angle. What is the social scene like at Elstree? Is it all strictly business-like or is it a bit more laid-back?
Are there any recommendations for other schools within a reasonable distance of Elstree, say within 1/2 to 3/4 hours travelling?
Thanks again.
LPlate.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: a fence in the sun
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabair doesn't promote a social 'scene', but I recall that Jill's cafe (restaurant!) always offered good food and drink, and I have met many interesting characters there. The Aero Club was a little divorced from the flying training side of things, but I'm sure the welcome is warm.
Regarding learning to fly at Elstree, the runway is challenging, the airspace demanding, the traffic busy, and for all these reasons, if you can go solo at Elstree, you're on the right tracks....
Watch out for light winds and runway 08 (the slope will catch you out) and always land in the right place and at the right speed (this advice holds as true for a C150 at EGTR as it does for a B777 at EHAM).
I did a lot of very rewarding and happy flying and instructing at Elstree, last visiting a couple of years ago. From a personal perspective, I hope you choose Cabair, and I hope you learn at Elstree. The training will stand you in good stead. Study hard, make sure you understand what you are doing and why (ask your instructor if not), and enjoy!
Regarding learning to fly at Elstree, the runway is challenging, the airspace demanding, the traffic busy, and for all these reasons, if you can go solo at Elstree, you're on the right tracks....
Watch out for light winds and runway 08 (the slope will catch you out) and always land in the right place and at the right speed (this advice holds as true for a C150 at EGTR as it does for a B777 at EHAM).
I did a lot of very rewarding and happy flying and instructing at Elstree, last visiting a couple of years ago. From a personal perspective, I hope you choose Cabair, and I hope you learn at Elstree. The training will stand you in good stead. Study hard, make sure you understand what you are doing and why (ask your instructor if not), and enjoy!
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try White Waltham if you're looking for a social scene. It's about 1/2-3/4 hour drive from Elstree on the M25 (depending on traffic) so just about fits your distance requirements.
FFF
----------
FFF
----------
Last edited by FlyingForFun; 8th Apr 2002 at 08:16.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As often with these sorts of decisions it comes down to 90% convenience and 10% solid reasoning; Elstree (whether it be Cabair or any one of the other schools there) is your best bet for convenience, and with the weather being what it is a school that's only five minutes from your front door is better than one that's an hour away. I won't tell you how many times I've driven for an hour to get to my home airfield 'on the offchance' and been sorely disappointed when the weather didn't improve by the time I got there. The hour's drive back isn't fun under those circumstances.
On the other hand, Elstree is busy, which means that it'll cost hard cash in terms of having to wait at the hold for ten minutes (but your hour runs from breaks off, remember), you may not be able to book a/c when you want to, it's a hectic bit of airspace to learn in. The advantages? It's a hectic bit of airspace to learn in, you get very good RT experience, you get used to operating from a busy airfield, etc.
Personally, though, I've gone for the slightly more laid back approach. There are a couple of airfields within, I'd say, half an hour's drive of Elstree, and that's Stapleford, just off the M25 on the junction with the M11, and High Cross, a little way up the A10 in Hertfordshire. I fly out of High Cross with a gentleman called Alan Adams. The airfield's unlicensed, so I have to fly ten minutes down to Stapleford to start the clock ticking, and it's a rather small operation with one a/c in service. Alan's a career instructor, and a pleasure to fly with, and the experience of having to fly back and forth to Stapleford every single lesson is valuable, particularly when you start on your navs. You also never, ever, have to wait for a take off slot. You still get to fly through fairly busy airspace - you're still under the London TMA, you have Stansted just to the Northeast and Luton to the Northwest - but it costs an awful lot less... Even Stapleford, which is busier, doesn't seem to have the delays you might get at Elstree, and again you'll still get the experience of operating into a relatively busy airfield under very busy airspace. Perhaps the most important bit, though, about High Cross, is that it is very laid back. Come back from a couple of hours in the air, put the kettle on, sit back, chat for a while before going home. No pretensions, no formality, very relaxing.
All down to personal preference, as always. There are advantages and there are disadvantages - best thing to do is visit a few places before committing yourself. And don't underestimate the value of personalities; you'll be spending an awful lot of time cooped up in a very small space with your instructor, so it's worth getting to know them a bit.
On the other hand, Elstree is busy, which means that it'll cost hard cash in terms of having to wait at the hold for ten minutes (but your hour runs from breaks off, remember), you may not be able to book a/c when you want to, it's a hectic bit of airspace to learn in. The advantages? It's a hectic bit of airspace to learn in, you get very good RT experience, you get used to operating from a busy airfield, etc.
Personally, though, I've gone for the slightly more laid back approach. There are a couple of airfields within, I'd say, half an hour's drive of Elstree, and that's Stapleford, just off the M25 on the junction with the M11, and High Cross, a little way up the A10 in Hertfordshire. I fly out of High Cross with a gentleman called Alan Adams. The airfield's unlicensed, so I have to fly ten minutes down to Stapleford to start the clock ticking, and it's a rather small operation with one a/c in service. Alan's a career instructor, and a pleasure to fly with, and the experience of having to fly back and forth to Stapleford every single lesson is valuable, particularly when you start on your navs. You also never, ever, have to wait for a take off slot. You still get to fly through fairly busy airspace - you're still under the London TMA, you have Stansted just to the Northeast and Luton to the Northwest - but it costs an awful lot less... Even Stapleford, which is busier, doesn't seem to have the delays you might get at Elstree, and again you'll still get the experience of operating into a relatively busy airfield under very busy airspace. Perhaps the most important bit, though, about High Cross, is that it is very laid back. Come back from a couple of hours in the air, put the kettle on, sit back, chat for a while before going home. No pretensions, no formality, very relaxing.
All down to personal preference, as always. There are advantages and there are disadvantages - best thing to do is visit a few places before committing yourself. And don't underestimate the value of personalities; you'll be spending an awful lot of time cooped up in a very small space with your instructor, so it's worth getting to know them a bit.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elstree - No Thanks!
Hi LPlate!
I learned to fly in a relaxed and friendly environment and latterly taught in one.
It was me that unwittingly started a lively debate about Elstree in Pilot Magazine last year.
I found the airmanship there sadly lacking if not bloody scary and certainly not conducive to flight safety.
My advice to you is that you are more likely to enjoy your flying training elsewhere.
If you need to travel then buy some CD's for your car with the money you will save by not queing at the hold for lengthy periods. Your blood pressure will also not be affected by Mr Nasty in the tower. OK, I know he has had his charisma bypass replumbed but - hey - you are the customer here.
Make a day of it and drive as far away as you can from Elstree. There are some wonderful aero clubs out in the sticks.
I learned to fly in a relaxed and friendly environment and latterly taught in one.
It was me that unwittingly started a lively debate about Elstree in Pilot Magazine last year.
I found the airmanship there sadly lacking if not bloody scary and certainly not conducive to flight safety.
My advice to you is that you are more likely to enjoy your flying training elsewhere.
If you need to travel then buy some CD's for your car with the money you will save by not queing at the hold for lengthy periods. Your blood pressure will also not be affected by Mr Nasty in the tower. OK, I know he has had his charisma bypass replumbed but - hey - you are the customer here.
Make a day of it and drive as far away as you can from Elstree. There are some wonderful aero clubs out in the sticks.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lplate
I am Elstree based. Send me an email with your tel number if you want to know more.
HP
If you are the one with the parked aircraft you were unlucky. You have to remember that at Elstree space is at a premium. Regarding airmanship you will find there people with 10,000h logged as well as people that are doing there first steps. You also started to learn at one time and you also made your own mistakes.
AC-DC
I am Elstree based. Send me an email with your tel number if you want to know more.
HP
If you are the one with the parked aircraft you were unlucky. You have to remember that at Elstree space is at a premium. Regarding airmanship you will find there people with 10,000h logged as well as people that are doing there first steps. You also started to learn at one time and you also made your own mistakes.
AC-DC
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AC-DC, you have a point but as in most cases, I am sure most poor "airmanship" displays have been from guys that appear to have many hours and a large wallet to match. I think arrogance plays a strong part at this airfield unfortunately. Not saying everyone is arrogant there but I have met and flown in the circuit with some classic characters who seem to think they own the place. I would rather pay money to look at an field that resembles an airfield and not a "travellers" dumping ground. I'm sorry but this airfield is a tip. I can't believe people pay money to operate out of such a dive. Hey ho, the power of convenience. It reminds me of my fathers scrap yard when I visit this place. Great shame as I am sure it could do better.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CaptAirProx
I have to agree with you that Elstree is not the most appealing places, I have also seen nicer places but Elstree is the only one left this side of London. To make the place better will require investment and above all planning permission that will not be granted as the council would be very happy to shut the place down.
Arrogance – Yes, we had it in large quantities. I don’t know when you have been to Elstree, my feeling is that the problem is now part of the past, that was my reason for not joining the Aeroclub for many years. Some of the less nicer residents left and since the circuit and the joining procedure were changed there are less incidence of pilot fighting each other to land.
A.T.C – There are 4 – 5 part time ATC (Information Service) that men the radio, all of them are very good, helpful and polite, one can be unpleasant at times and I don’t know why. Remove him from behind the mic. and you will have a most delightful chap. I know that he is trying to control his temper, sometime unsuccessfully.
Come in and I will be happy to meet you there, I hope that you will see it differently after your visit.
AC-DC
I have to agree with you that Elstree is not the most appealing places, I have also seen nicer places but Elstree is the only one left this side of London. To make the place better will require investment and above all planning permission that will not be granted as the council would be very happy to shut the place down.
Arrogance – Yes, we had it in large quantities. I don’t know when you have been to Elstree, my feeling is that the problem is now part of the past, that was my reason for not joining the Aeroclub for many years. Some of the less nicer residents left and since the circuit and the joining procedure were changed there are less incidence of pilot fighting each other to land.
A.T.C – There are 4 – 5 part time ATC (Information Service) that men the radio, all of them are very good, helpful and polite, one can be unpleasant at times and I don’t know why. Remove him from behind the mic. and you will have a most delightful chap. I know that he is trying to control his temper, sometime unsuccessfully.
Come in and I will be happy to meet you there, I hope that you will see it differently after your visit.
AC-DC
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elstree - Ugh!
Hi AC-DC,
I have to agree with Capt AirProx,
I visited Elstree last year - went off on a local flight and despite obeying Mr Nasty's ATC instructions (despite AFISO status) was overtaken on finals by some idiot in a C172 - flaps up and going for it (you know - the type who drives 2ft from the rear bumper of a driving school car) causing me to go around.
Coincidentally - on the climb out there was apparently 2 aircaft on finals under full ATC instruction(!) on finals - one above the other. They nearly collided and 1 reported an airmiss over the radio after arranging with the other pilot to 'sort it out on the ground'.
Suitably impressed, we went to lunch only to find that some mindless plankton had pebbledashed my new aircraft - I mean - a really good job. Towbar? Why bother! Every man for himself here.
Keep your gold Rolexes and Sovereign rings.
If it is Elstree or worms - pass the brown sauce..
I have to agree with Capt AirProx,
I visited Elstree last year - went off on a local flight and despite obeying Mr Nasty's ATC instructions (despite AFISO status) was overtaken on finals by some idiot in a C172 - flaps up and going for it (you know - the type who drives 2ft from the rear bumper of a driving school car) causing me to go around.
Coincidentally - on the climb out there was apparently 2 aircaft on finals under full ATC instruction(!) on finals - one above the other. They nearly collided and 1 reported an airmiss over the radio after arranging with the other pilot to 'sort it out on the ground'.
Suitably impressed, we went to lunch only to find that some mindless plankton had pebbledashed my new aircraft - I mean - a really good job. Towbar? Why bother! Every man for himself here.
Keep your gold Rolexes and Sovereign rings.
If it is Elstree or worms - pass the brown sauce..
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: South East England
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Somehow the words airmanship and Elstree don,t seem to sit comfortably together.The wrong attitudes to flying, far to many aeroplanes and inadequate taxiways/parking/runways add up to a nightmare airfield to be avoided if at all possible.I give the place a wide berth normally,it must be a nightmare trying to instruct and instill correct procedures in such a poisoned enviroment.In many ways the place could be said to embody the way the whole "Sarf eayst" of England is headed.The intensity of flying at the site requires a discipline and consideration of flying all to frequently found missing.So many much nicer places to visit White Waltham, North Weald and Rochester spring to mind.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spanish Riviera
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will also find that Elstree has 6 (?) variable ccts. Continuity when working up to fist solo may be a little difficult. I've said it before, try Denham. It's only a couple of junctions around the M25 (20-30 mins?). If you're going to fork out a few thou on flying, make sure you do it in a good environment. There's no harm in jumping in your car and going for a look
Socially, I have found Elstree to be fine. I did a presentation in the aero club a while back and was plied with free beer throughout the evening.
Socially, I have found Elstree to be fine. I did a presentation in the aero club a while back and was plied with free beer throughout the evening.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stampe, I have to agree!
I thought flying was about freeing oneself from the bounds of the earth to fly way above the rat race.
It seems the rat race has found its way to Elstree in large proportions.
I thought flying was about freeing oneself from the bounds of the earth to fly way above the rat race.
It seems the rat race has found its way to Elstree in large proportions.
