Hitting the plateau
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Peter
I do not think MJ was talking about down the approach but in the actual landing phase.
Pinning your reference speed until you get to placing the aircraft in the landing attitude should mean that unless you have flared ridiculously high speed is no longer the prime reference attitude is.
Pace
I do not think MJ was talking about down the approach but in the actual landing phase.
Pinning your reference speed until you get to placing the aircraft in the landing attitude should mean that unless you have flared ridiculously high speed is no longer the prime reference attitude is.
Pace
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Possibly a bit late but hopefully as a bit of encouragement to the OP I felt I was in a similar situation at the end of last week - I'd got the first part of the circuit OK, and my approaches were in general reasonable (not totally consistent but the bad ones were becoming rarer and rarer), but I just couldn't seem to master the flare and hold off - I'd either do it far too early and have to go around, or do it at the right time but still have power on and thus balloon and go around, or do it late and bounce and go around, and this didn't seem to be improving from lesson to lesson making me wonder if I'd ever get it.
However, this week it was all change - I had a lesson on Thursday where out of the blue I managed 3 perfectly safe landings in a row, with the instructor not having to do anything so clearly something had just clicked. I had another lesson on Friday where I was able to repeat it, and it then came as rather a surprise to me when the instructor then sent me on my first solo, so in two lessons I went from wondering if I'd ever get it and thoughts of giving up starting to stir to going solo and still having a grin on my face now!
However, this week it was all change - I had a lesson on Thursday where out of the blue I managed 3 perfectly safe landings in a row, with the instructor not having to do anything so clearly something had just clicked. I had another lesson on Friday where I was able to repeat it, and it then came as rather a surprise to me when the instructor then sent me on my first solo, so in two lessons I went from wondering if I'd ever get it and thoughts of giving up starting to stir to going solo and still having a grin on my face now!
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Pace - yes; during and after the flare, airspeed is not controlled anymore. But it has to be controlled before than, otherwise the bit that follows is not going to work 
We probably have too much Iphone-style writing here
We probably have too much Iphone-style writing here
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And talking of attitude, I would +1 the previous advice to check your seat height, and consider using a cushion. The more ground you can see over the nose, the more attitudes you can monitor.
"Keeping the picture" only works if you can, er, see the picture!
PS I'm not an instructor either.
PPS I hope "+1" doesn't count as "iPhone writing"!
"Keeping the picture" only works if you can, er, see the picture!
PS I'm not an instructor either.
PPS I hope "+1" doesn't count as "iPhone writing"!
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We all know that landings are all about visual cues. They take time to learn because the visual cues are short lived (it happens quickly) so it takes a lot of landings for the brain to sort out whats going on. (some take longer than others 
).
Give the brain more exposure to the visual cues and you will learn quicker.
Find a long runway and a good instructor, fly the approach, settle almost into the flair, but dont land, just hold it off for as long as the runway safely permitts. Do that half a dozn times. Next have your instructor land on two wheels, nose high and wheel the aircraft down the runway without letting the nose wheel touch.
You will be amazed how much more quickly your brain learns
the visual cues. Landings will seem easy.
When they do forget all about stabilised approaches. Intentionally throw in some really horrible ones, too high, too fast, hot and high, its your job to recover. Its amazing what can be recovered and it makes a stabilised approach and landing seem a sinch the next time you fly the approach accurately.
).Give the brain more exposure to the visual cues and you will learn quicker.
Find a long runway and a good instructor, fly the approach, settle almost into the flair, but dont land, just hold it off for as long as the runway safely permitts. Do that half a dozn times. Next have your instructor land on two wheels, nose high and wheel the aircraft down the runway without letting the nose wheel touch.
You will be amazed how much more quickly your brain learns
the visual cues. Landings will seem easy.
When they do forget all about stabilised approaches. Intentionally throw in some really horrible ones, too high, too fast, hot and high, its your job to recover. Its amazing what can be recovered and it makes a stabilised approach and landing seem a sinch the next time you fly the approach accurately.
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Peter
airspeed should be controlled so that you arrive at your reference speed at the right point just to confirm that does not mean you have to fly your reference speed all the way down the approach as some do
But whoops we are in the student pilots forum so cannot discuss things like different approach techniques what constitutes a stable approach etc until after nine pm
NB
Fuji and Peter are another two to be added to the list of to be listened to with lots of knowledge and experience
Pace
airspeed should be controlled so that you arrive at your reference speed at the right point just to confirm that does not mean you have to fly your reference speed all the way down the approach as some do
But whoops we are in the student pilots forum so cannot discuss things like different approach techniques what constitutes a stable approach etc until after nine pm
NB
Fuji and Peter are another two to be added to the list of to be listened to with lots of knowledge and experience
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 25th Aug 2012 at 09:13.
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Peter there are some of us that make students fly the whole circuit with no instruments. The student actually is more accurate with thier speed than when the instruments are uncovered.
Needle chasing and not flying an attitude is quite a common fault.
Needle chasing and not flying an attitude is quite a common fault.
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The student actually is more accurate with thier speed than when the instruments are uncovered.
How do you know that if you cannot see the things
???Yes excellent exercise keep the bugg+rs looking out and feeling the aircraft rather than thinking they are flying MSFS
Pace
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Hitting the plateau
Just a quick reply
Heading out the door shortly for another lesson
Runway switch this time (08 rather than 26)
Maybe 8 will be my lucky number
I've got a couple of strategies planned
One - sod it , I used to enjoy this flying lark
, so I'm going to go out and have some fun, inevitably there will be a landing but maybe if I'm having fun I'll relax a little and land it
Two - work on getting the approach right every time , if I concentrate on that then maybe the landings will be easier
Three - if I'm still frustrated after today's lesson then I'm going to ask my instructor to move onto something else , maybe revisit stalls , spirals , spin recovery etc
Or maybe even some Nav and cross country
Just to enjoy it again !
A couple of remarks about visual clues , a couple of you mentioned cushions
I'm very short , I already use two cushions behind me ( otherwise I can't get full rudder deflection) and one underneath me !
Also I really don't instrument watch, it's something I did at the start of my training so worked hard to correct
Once I've turned base I judge my altitude purely by visual clues for example
The winds look very light today so fingers crossed and I'll report back!
Heading out the door shortly for another lesson
Runway switch this time (08 rather than 26)
Maybe 8 will be my lucky number
I've got a couple of strategies planned
One - sod it , I used to enjoy this flying lark
, so I'm going to go out and have some fun, inevitably there will be a landing but maybe if I'm having fun I'll relax a little and land it
Two - work on getting the approach right every time , if I concentrate on that then maybe the landings will be easier
Three - if I'm still frustrated after today's lesson then I'm going to ask my instructor to move onto something else , maybe revisit stalls , spirals , spin recovery etc
Or maybe even some Nav and cross country
Just to enjoy it again !
A couple of remarks about visual clues , a couple of you mentioned cushions
I'm very short , I already use two cushions behind me ( otherwise I can't get full rudder deflection) and one underneath me !
Also I really don't instrument watch, it's something I did at the start of my training so worked hard to correct
Once I've turned base I judge my altitude purely by visual clues for example
The winds look very light today so fingers crossed and I'll report back!
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One - sod it , I used to enjoy this flying lark
, so I'm going to go out and have some fun, inevitably there will be a landing but maybe if I'm having fun I'll relax a little and land it
, so I'm going to go out and have some fun, inevitably there will be a landing but maybe if I'm having fun I'll relax a little and land it
The type of cushions makes a difference as well in my expernece, the ones off your sofa arn't that great for some folk. Firmer medical type cushions like what you can get off wheel chairs seem to work better.
And pace apart from the fact I know what the speed of the aircraft is without looking at the ASI you can see it if you really must if you put the post it note vertically, with the flap open to you :-P but as the whole lot was usually covered with a chart that wasn't an option. MSFS must have cost students a fortune over the years.
Last edited by mad_jock; 25th Aug 2012 at 14:54.
Localflighteast
Good Luck ! and don't worry, the good news is it will all come together.......the bad news is it doesn't matter how long you fly there will still be those days where you make a Hound Dog (or Fox Hound for you Brits) landing.....that's when the tyres go YELP, YELP, YELP
Good Luck ! and don't worry, the good news is it will all come together.......the bad news is it doesn't matter how long you fly there will still be those days where you make a Hound Dog (or Fox Hound for you Brits) landing.....that's when the tyres go YELP, YELP, YELP
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.the bad news is it doesn't matter how long you fly there will still be those days where you make a Hound Dog (or Fox Hound for you Brits) landing
Did an approach into leeds on a horrible night and and raped the runway. Hostie once we had got the pax off announced "hey lads that last one managed to get my tit out my bra" Which would be funny normally but when translated into yorkshire dialect broke the "bloody hell" atmosphere in the cockpit and started the "I made a right pigs ear of that, what i reckoned went wrong was apart from being ****e......" "yep sounds about right, forget about it, leeds is a bastard when its blowing a gale"
But strangely its the calm dry days that I manage to pull off my least impressive arrivals.
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I don’t seem to be able to pick a good visual clue to line us up straight
The way I teach it is to look at the sides of the runway in relation to each other.
If it appears that they are both pointing in the same direction move in the oppersite direction.
If one is straight and the other at an angle move a very little in the oppersite direction its leaning.
When one side leans one way and the other side leans the oppersite way you have pretty much cracked it.
Once in the flare its focusing on the end of the runway.
Last edited by mad_jock; 25th Aug 2012 at 17:05.
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Update
Well I promised you all an update after today's lesson
It was
amazing
So different from last time. I was in total control of that plane. The ciruit was spot on , altitude maintained beautifully, circuit flown square, and it was FUN!!!!
my instructor said I showed "amazing resource management" in the cockpit. I knew what tools I had available to me and used them appropriately. I corrected fror the calm conditions by knowing what that'd do to my descent rate. When they sent me out on long final, I used my flaps at the right time instead of coming in too low. I realised that I had a longer time to drop the altitude.
The landings are improving. I actually believe that now. I ballooned on a couple of them , but now I am confident that I can SEE and FEEL what I did wrong. I don't know if this sounds bizarre but the landings aren't coming as a suprise to me anymore
Guess I'm back on the upward curve.
Appreciate the suggestions. My instructor helped a lot by showing me a wheelie down the runway to demonstrate what the nose up attitude should look like!
That was cool
Its also good that this thread got to three pages before we started discussing breasts.
At the start of my training I selected the sturdiest sports bra possible after discussing the issue with another girl at ground school we decided that" our landings were the only thing we wanted to worry about bouncing!"
Safe flying all
It was
amazing So different from last time. I was in total control of that plane. The ciruit was spot on , altitude maintained beautifully, circuit flown square, and it was FUN!!!!
my instructor said I showed "amazing resource management" in the cockpit. I knew what tools I had available to me and used them appropriately. I corrected fror the calm conditions by knowing what that'd do to my descent rate. When they sent me out on long final, I used my flaps at the right time instead of coming in too low. I realised that I had a longer time to drop the altitude.
The landings are improving. I actually believe that now. I ballooned on a couple of them , but now I am confident that I can SEE and FEEL what I did wrong. I don't know if this sounds bizarre but the landings aren't coming as a suprise to me anymore
Guess I'm back on the upward curve.
Appreciate the suggestions. My instructor helped a lot by showing me a wheelie down the runway to demonstrate what the nose up attitude should look like!
That was cool
Its also good that this thread got to three pages before we started discussing breasts.
At the start of my training I selected the sturdiest sports bra possible after discussing the issue with another girl at ground school we decided that
" our landings were the only thing we wanted to worry about bouncing!"Safe flying all