Wanting to learn to fly, any advice?
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
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From: London
A spontaneous control freak? Interesting combination! 
There are no specific higher education requirements for a commercial job; GCSEs in the usual subjects is often an entry requirement for integrated training courses or for the few and far between part-sponsored courses. A travel and tourism qualification and working as cabin crew would quite likely look good on your CV though!
There is a general wisdom that anyone that wants to be a pilot should do a degree, because when you have your CPL completed and find you can't get a job you can use your degree as a fall back to get a job. It's not essential, but again might spruce up your CV a bit.
Mad Jock, I think if someone just wants to be an instructor it is - all soon will be - possible to do it and get paid on just a PPL+FI?
There are no specific higher education requirements for a commercial job; GCSEs in the usual subjects is often an entry requirement for integrated training courses or for the few and far between part-sponsored courses. A travel and tourism qualification and working as cabin crew would quite likely look good on your CV though!
There is a general wisdom that anyone that wants to be a pilot should do a degree, because when you have your CPL completed and find you can't get a job you can use your degree as a fall back to get a job. It's not essential, but again might spruce up your CV a bit.
Mad Jock, I think if someone just wants to be an instructor it is - all soon will be - possible to do it and get paid on just a PPL+FI?
Last edited by The500man; 12th August 2012 at 09:52.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Cologne
Thanks for the info. Just to clear up I never got a job as crew, got the qualification and ended up a check in agent for 4 years 
Anyway like I say, not sure if it's something I'd go into, but I would never want to dismiss it.
I am abit of a strange one, I write alot of lists and plan my day accordingly. I like things done at certain times etc but sometimes I do have the odd right yes I'll do this or that and just go for it. Some of the best decisions I ever made are through doing that!
Anyway like I say, not sure if it's something I'd go into, but I would never want to dismiss it.
I am abit of a strange one, I write alot of lists and plan my day accordingly. I like things done at certain times etc but sometimes I do have the odd right yes I'll do this or that and just go for it. Some of the best decisions I ever made are through doing that!
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
To just become an instructor, I'd say it's not quite as bad as Jock suggests:
PPL - £8k
Hour build - £15k
CPL writtens - £2k
Instructor course - £6k
Medical - £500
£32k or so.
If you want to be a microlight instructor only cheaper still:
PPL - £5k
Hour build - £10k
Instructor course - £4k
"Medical" - £10.
£19k or so, and it pays better as well, plus provides good opportunities to start your own business that are less there in the light aircraft world although realistically at-least £10k investment in an aeroplane and a few other oddments is going to be needed to do that.
G
N.B.
Typical flying school light aeroplane (typically 30+ years old)
Typical microlight school 3-axis aeroplane (typically less than 10 years old)
As you can see, you're quite right and microlights are much cruder still
PPL - £8k
Hour build - £15k
CPL writtens - £2k
Instructor course - £6k
Medical - £500
£32k or so.
If you want to be a microlight instructor only cheaper still:
PPL - £5k
Hour build - £10k
Instructor course - £4k
"Medical" - £10.
£19k or so, and it pays better as well, plus provides good opportunities to start your own business that are less there in the light aircraft world although realistically at-least £10k investment in an aeroplane and a few other oddments is going to be needed to do that.
G
N.B.
Typical flying school light aeroplane (typically 30+ years old)
Typical microlight school 3-axis aeroplane (typically less than 10 years old)
As you can see, you're quite right and microlights are much cruder still
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Cheshire
Pros & Cons
Liz,
There is a lot of good advice that you have already received on your post, perhaps my two-pence worth might be helpful.
I obtained my PPL(A) after retiring in 2001 and continue to fly both out of Barton and Liverpool. I personally do not like Pipers because they generally only have one door at the front. I need to assist my wife into and out of the aircraft and this is very tricky with one door. Also, if I ever had to make a precautionary landing it would be impossible for me (sat in the left seat) to get out!
I started learning at Liverpool but finished my training at Barton (with LAC). I personally never take passengers from Barton because it is very bumpy, preferring instead to take them out of Liverpool.
Mainair at Barton are considerably cheaper than LAC or the Flight Academy at Barton. But you are looking at the microlight type of aircraft. Louis Blanchett is one of their instructors, I know him very well and did my PPL(A) completion with him - can't recommend him highly enough.
Lomac Aviators at Liverpool is a very friendly place and Neil Hazlehust is a very good instructor.
I know all the instructors at LAC Barton, Martin is good, but so to are Francis and Tony. I did my PPL flight test with Francis and she is excellent.
The costs of becoming a Commercial pilot have been understated in previous posts and those who have the qualifications still can not get a job. I know commercial pilots, one or two trained with me and the cost is between £70K-£100k.
I used to have a share in a Cessna 172 at Barton but this has been sold, so at present I operate via Lomac and SMAC (Southport & Mereyside Aero Club) aircraft at Liverpool.
There are advantages with Barton, much more friendly than Liverpool, no commercial traffic to concern you, much more a General Aviation airport. Disadvantages are it is grass and very bumpy, and they use FISO's (Flight Information Service Officers). This means that Air Traffic Control (FISO's) give you limited information and instructions. Fuel at Barton is also much more expensive than at other airports.
Liverpool is less friendly but tarmac runway (much longer than those at Barton), full Air Traffic Control and you are "mixing" with Ryan Air and Easy Jet. Really it all depends on your preference.
Hope the above is helpful, if you want any more information then PM me.
There is a lot of good advice that you have already received on your post, perhaps my two-pence worth might be helpful.
I obtained my PPL(A) after retiring in 2001 and continue to fly both out of Barton and Liverpool. I personally do not like Pipers because they generally only have one door at the front. I need to assist my wife into and out of the aircraft and this is very tricky with one door. Also, if I ever had to make a precautionary landing it would be impossible for me (sat in the left seat) to get out!
I started learning at Liverpool but finished my training at Barton (with LAC). I personally never take passengers from Barton because it is very bumpy, preferring instead to take them out of Liverpool.
Mainair at Barton are considerably cheaper than LAC or the Flight Academy at Barton. But you are looking at the microlight type of aircraft. Louis Blanchett is one of their instructors, I know him very well and did my PPL(A) completion with him - can't recommend him highly enough.
Lomac Aviators at Liverpool is a very friendly place and Neil Hazlehust is a very good instructor.
I know all the instructors at LAC Barton, Martin is good, but so to are Francis and Tony. I did my PPL flight test with Francis and she is excellent.
The costs of becoming a Commercial pilot have been understated in previous posts and those who have the qualifications still can not get a job. I know commercial pilots, one or two trained with me and the cost is between £70K-£100k.
I used to have a share in a Cessna 172 at Barton but this has been sold, so at present I operate via Lomac and SMAC (Southport & Mereyside Aero Club) aircraft at Liverpool.
There are advantages with Barton, much more friendly than Liverpool, no commercial traffic to concern you, much more a General Aviation airport. Disadvantages are it is grass and very bumpy, and they use FISO's (Flight Information Service Officers). This means that Air Traffic Control (FISO's) give you limited information and instructions. Fuel at Barton is also much more expensive than at other airports.
Liverpool is less friendly but tarmac runway (much longer than those at Barton), full Air Traffic Control and you are "mixing" with Ryan Air and Easy Jet. Really it all depends on your preference.
Hope the above is helpful, if you want any more information then PM me.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,804
Likes: 1
Its not 70k plus modular as I said you need to sit down and look at the options.
I am a commercial pilot and it cost me 35k including instructor rating back in 2001 and I am employed and have been since license issue.
I am a commercial pilot and it cost me 35k including instructor rating back in 2001 and I am employed and have been since license issue.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, England
Barton and Credit cards
Hi Liz,
Be a bit careful. Barton has been an excellent place to train for very many years. I got my own PPL there in 1960! However, I believe Manchester Corporation has recently had to sell off the aerodrome to big business interests, who wish to turn it into 'Manchester City Airport' and bring in a lot of commercial air transport.
Whenever this happens, general aviation usually becomes unwelcome and gets the boot or else has to pay exorbitant aerodrome costs. I doubt if the change of ownership at Barton has gone live yet, but you need to ask what is the current status of this process. (Actually, I was under the impression that LAC in particular had already decamped to Harwarden in Wales; anybody know anything)?
Secondly, why you should use a credit card. If you fly 'Group A' aircraft, just about every flying lesson will cost more than £100, (usually a lot more than £100). If you should be scammed in some way, as long as the credit card purchase has been over £100, if you can't get redress from the supplier, you can claim against the credit card company. With a debit card you can not. That's why you should use a credit card. This becomes even more important if you should eventually decide to train outside the UK, (in the States for example).
Good luck Kid,
BP.
Be a bit careful. Barton has been an excellent place to train for very many years. I got my own PPL there in 1960! However, I believe Manchester Corporation has recently had to sell off the aerodrome to big business interests, who wish to turn it into 'Manchester City Airport' and bring in a lot of commercial air transport.
Whenever this happens, general aviation usually becomes unwelcome and gets the boot or else has to pay exorbitant aerodrome costs. I doubt if the change of ownership at Barton has gone live yet, but you need to ask what is the current status of this process. (Actually, I was under the impression that LAC in particular had already decamped to Harwarden in Wales; anybody know anything)?
Secondly, why you should use a credit card. If you fly 'Group A' aircraft, just about every flying lesson will cost more than £100, (usually a lot more than £100). If you should be scammed in some way, as long as the credit card purchase has been over £100, if you can't get redress from the supplier, you can claim against the credit card company. With a debit card you can not. That's why you should use a credit card. This becomes even more important if you should eventually decide to train outside the UK, (in the States for example).
Good luck Kid,
BP.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 21
Likes: 2
From: Manchester
Broomstick
You're nine years out of the loop!
Barton was purchased by Peel Holdings in 2003 and it is called City Airport Manchester although we don't call it that.
LAC are still here, not sure of that rumour either.
It does seem Peel are continuing to invest in the aerodrome new hangars, drainage etc plus we have the new clubhouse.
Personally I think once you learn to take off and land from Barton you're pretty much sure of operating from anywhere given the grass runways and close proximity to restricted airspace, all good for learning a bit of disipline!
You're nine years out of the loop!
Barton was purchased by Peel Holdings in 2003 and it is called City Airport Manchester although we don't call it that.
LAC are still here, not sure of that rumour either.
It does seem Peel are continuing to invest in the aerodrome new hangars, drainage etc plus we have the new clubhouse.
Personally I think once you learn to take off and land from Barton you're pretty much sure of operating from anywhere given the grass runways and close proximity to restricted airspace, all good for learning a bit of disipline!
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Cheshire
Latest Post Responses.
Should you doubt the cost and availability of jobs for commercial pilots, when you take your trail lesson talk to Rob on the LAC desk, he aspires to become a Commercial Pilot and you can get it straight from him. The costs of training are a part of the costs, but there are greater demands on your cash. Ryan Air recently advertised but if you were accepted then you had to find £27K.
Do not confuse LAC Flying Club with LAC (Lancs Aero Club). Peel Holdings have the Development rights at Barton. It is felt by some that the Media City at Salford would increase aircraft (probably helicopters) movements - time will tell.
At the last check a one hour lesson at LAC was £170 plus VAT and plus other charges!
Do not confuse LAC Flying Club with LAC (Lancs Aero Club). Peel Holdings have the Development rights at Barton. It is felt by some that the Media City at Salford would increase aircraft (probably helicopters) movements - time will tell.
At the last check a one hour lesson at LAC was £170 plus VAT and plus other charges!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: Cologne
Thanks for the info, always good to know these things.
Like I've mentioned previously, I booked my trail lesson with LAC, while there I will have a nosy about and find the best option should I wish to start lessons (which I can't imagine I wouldn't) I'll make an informed decision about who to go with after I've got a bit of a better feel for the place.
As for the commercial aspect, be it 35k or 100k if I so wish to go down that road then I'd accept that the money comes with it. I've always said it costs alot but if you make it you'll forget all about it. And I bet there's very few people who regret spending the money anyway to be able to fly.
Like I've mentioned previously, I booked my trail lesson with LAC, while there I will have a nosy about and find the best option should I wish to start lessons (which I can't imagine I wouldn't) I'll make an informed decision about who to go with after I've got a bit of a better feel for the place.
As for the commercial aspect, be it 35k or 100k if I so wish to go down that road then I'd accept that the money comes with it. I've always said it costs alot but if you make it you'll forget all about it. And I bet there's very few people who regret spending the money anyway to be able to fly.
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 67
Likes: 1
From: uk
Barton - bumpy runway .... its grass it wont be like a billiard table. Try
Blackpool runway 28 more bumps than a roller coaster and thats asphalt/tarmac.
Give me 27L/09R at Barton any day....
Alot to be said for learning at a grass runway airfield.......
Blackpool runway 28 more bumps than a roller coaster and thats asphalt/tarmac.
Give me 27L/09R at Barton any day....
Alot to be said for learning at a grass runway airfield.......
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Can the bumps really be any worse than the pot holes in the roads? 
In my mind as long as it's remotely flat with nothing really to bump into I'm good
In my mind as long as it's remotely flat with nothing really to bump into I'm good
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 2
From: UK
That's it Crash One! Barton's runway are fine for PPL; better than a big airport as you won't be fazed by short grass strips once you qualify. The only problem is the field does close occasionally in winter due waterlogging.
