C182 NXT - Diesel goes mainstream

[Katamarino]

At last, the airplane I have been waiting for! C182 direct from Cessna with the newest SMA engine. 1160nm range on 87 USG.

http://textron.vo.llnwd.net/o25/CES/...kylane_NXT.pdf

[DeltaV]

That's over 6 hours endurance. Does it have a toilet?

[Big Pistons Forever]

What is the price difference between the Diesel and Avgas engine versions ?

[dont overfil]

Something wrong there. Doesn't sound that much better than the new generation avgas burner.

D.O.

[Immortal]

Finally another diesel, not being a Diamond. But what is with that 18000 ft limitation on all those diesels? Does anybody know?

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by Immortal

But what is with that 18000 ft limitation on all those diesels? Does anybody know?

Turbodiesel need much higher pressures to reach full rated power than classic Lycontinentals. For example, the MAP on Centurion 2.0 with full takeoff power is around 2.3 - 2.4 bar (~ 70"), while on Continental TSIO-360 the MAP is 40". As the altitude increases, the pressure drops and you can't sustain 70" for long, even in twin-turbo installations. Again, the critical altitude of Centurion 2.0 is around 6000ft (to achieve 100% load), while the TSIO-360 has it in the range of 12-13 thousand feet.

To simplify: you can get 200HP from an average normal aspirated Lycosaur, but you won't get it from a normal aspirated Diesel engine, unless you can swallow a substantial increase in size and weight. This is why virutally all cars use turbodiesel engines, not normal aspirated ones.

[Immortal]

If I look at this article on the DA42 UAV, the ceiling is 30000 ft, but the engines seem the same.

DA42-Based UAV Tested

Also the Grey Eagle drone has a reported ceiling of 29.000 feet and uses a Centurion engine.

February 2012 Military Power - Diesel Power Magazine

I've been talking to a DA42 pilot and he reports a climb performance at FL170 of about 900 feet a minute, that does not indicate a big loss of power at altitude.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Price just announced $ 515,000

[FlyingStone]

Well yes, with 500 kg less MTOM it's not surprising that the engines are capable of delivering enough power to climb to FL300.

[172driver]

Interesting thing is that it will replace the Avgas version, not being offered alongside it.

[achimha]

I don't believe that "replace" part of the statement is correct. According to the 2011 GAMA report, Cessna sold 40 normally aspirated and 37 turbo 182. That is not much and stopping the gasoline model wouldn't cause much harm. However, it also wouldn't cost much just continuing to offer this model.

[piperboy84]

I have a recurring dream that I arrive at the strip to fly my 0-360 equipped Maule to discover that someone has magically installed a 200HP single control diesel engine (that runs on agri diesel) and a BRS system in it, I usually wake up right before the part where I notice that Jennifer Anniston is sitting right seat asking where we are going today !

[172driver]

before the part where I notice that Jennifer Anniston is sitting right seat asking where we are going today !

To which you of course reply 'to go shopping for aircraft diesel engines'

achima, both AOPA and FLYING Mag report the same, i.e. 'replace'. Surprised me also, and of course both may be wrong, but give the sales figures I'm not sure it makes sense (from Cessna's POV) to produce both. We'll see.

Does anyone know if these engines can be retrofitted into existing (old) 182 airframes?

In any case this comes close to being the ideal combination for long trips to interesting places

[dont overfil]

They say it is only the turbo avgas burner they are stopping.

$72000 is the price premium for the diesel version.

D.O.

[Immortal]

Does anyone know if these engines can be retrofitted into existing (old) 182 airframes?

Yes that is possible, the engine itself is already certified. Dry weight: 207 kg.

SMA Jet Fuel Piston Engines - Mastenbroek Aeroskill

Cost? I am not sure, but I heard something about €60.000 for the engine itself.

[Shorrick Mk2]

...and it's still a worse offering than the Pipistrel Pantera (granted that one isn't certified yet but).

[Immortal]

My guess is that the Panthera will be one of the last HPA with a AVGAS burner up front. Continental just announced 3 diesel engines:

Continental Motors unveils plans for trio of diesels

[Hodja]

...and it's still a worse offering than the Pipistrel Pantera (granted that one isn't certified yet but).

Nor has it even flown yet...

[dont overfil]

I doubt the diesel Cessna would make sense on a purely financial basis in the UK.

Assuming it used half the fuel of the avgas model and the fuel costs half as much. The saving over 2000 hours at UK prices is £34000 against a price premium of £48000.

Presumably by then a more expensive overhaul is due? Have I missed something?

D.O.

[Pilot DAR]

Altitude limitations for the aircraft may be based not upon the ability of the diesel engine to operate well at high altitude, but to be restarted up there. This was the basis for the altitude limitation on an earlier diesel aircraft.

The opportunity to retrofit an SMA diesel in an older 182, though theoretically there, is practically not. I ordered an SMA engine, on behalf of a client, in March 2010, and the aircraft has been waiting firewall bare since then. The older SMA diesel, though STC'd in the 182, is no longer available. 47 were converted. The new SMA "E" engine is not STC'd for retrofit - the future will tell. I have met with the SMA President with respect to the purchase of an SMA engine on more than one occasion. SMA staff were very welcoming, and attempted to fulfill this order. Though things did not go the way I would have hoped, I do understand SMA's priorities with respect to the "aftermarket" use of their engines.

Cessna's SMA diesel 182 will be a remarkable aircraft.....