Requesting the Status of a Danger Area
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Requesting the Status of a Danger Area
A small question that arose after my flight yesterday, which took us via Weymouth to Sandbanks, through D026. I've always just asked Bournemouth Radar, who I'm in contact with already and are always very obliging and usually seem to have that information close at hand. Yesterday however the controller didn't know, and suggested I call London Information (who, after a 'standby' came back fairly quickly). What I'm wondering is, is asking for this information on the RT the accepted and proper way of doing things? Or is there somewhere that I should have checked before departing, a phone number perhaps, and that asking on the RT is 'ok', but a bit cheeky? Thanks in advance.
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You can ring there will be a number somewhere in the AIP.
Its not usually a problem asking the agency you are already talking to unless they are busy.
But personally I would have asked plymouth mil on 124.150 on box 2.
Even if it is hot they know whats going on and if they can they will clear you through anyway.
All my dealings with Plymouth Mil I have been extremely impressed on not only there attitude in allowing access to the danger areas but also there motivation in putting extra work in to help you out. Its definately we won't let you through if we really can't but if there is a way, you can do it.
I am sure some have had other not so good experences with them.
But I have always found them a nice bunch and a credit to thier service.
Its not usually a problem asking the agency you are already talking to unless they are busy.
But personally I would have asked plymouth mil on 124.150 on box 2.
Even if it is hot they know whats going on and if they can they will clear you through anyway.
All my dealings with Plymouth Mil I have been extremely impressed on not only there attitude in allowing access to the danger areas but also there motivation in putting extra work in to help you out. Its definately we won't let you through if we really can't but if there is a way, you can do it.
I am sure some have had other not so good experences with them.
But I have always found them a nice bunch and a credit to thier service.
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Asking on the RT is perfectly fine. The whole point of a basic service is so that you an get information needed for your flight, such as this (and not for getting traffic info!).
What it shouldn't be used for is as a replacement for checking notams. You should of course (and I assume you did) check the notams prior to take off to see if any activity was notified, but of course that doesn't mean that unnotified activity has started nor does it mean that the notified activity has been called off. So you are perfectly correct in asking about its status over the RT.
What it shouldn't be used for is as a replacement for checking notams. You should of course (and I assume you did) check the notams prior to take off to see if any activity was notified, but of course that doesn't mean that unnotified activity has started nor does it mean that the notified activity has been called off. So you are perfectly correct in asking about its status over the RT.
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Thanks to you both for your replies. I hadn't thought of using Plymouth Mil - will bear them in mind next time. dublinpilot - Yes, I certainly did check the NOTAMs! I worked hard to get my licence and I don't want to throw it away by bumbling through an active danger area/airshow/Red Arrows! :-)
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Another vote for Plymouth Mil here as well. I had the same experience as Mad_Jock. Was with Bournemouth routing west towards Swanage. Asked them about D026 and 12/13 etc. as I was heading down the coast for Cornwall. They suggested I call Plymouth Mil, who were extremely helpful and cleared me for the transits I needed. The zones were active, but as not much was going on they were very accommodating and shepherded us though. Fine chaps and chapesses.
As for RT permission for Danger areas, I try to call on the radio in good time and have an alternative routing in my back pocket if there's no-one on frequency or the range is hot. I only tend to use the phone for PPR to an airfield I know I'm going to. I think that's more polite than radioing in, but I'm sure others will have different views.
As for RT permission for Danger areas, I try to call on the radio in good time and have an alternative routing in my back pocket if there's no-one on frequency or the range is hot. I only tend to use the phone for PPR to an airfield I know I'm going to. I think that's more polite than radioing in, but I'm sure others will have different views.
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Plymouth mil is more than likely who the civi controller phoned.
Its always worth having a list of the mil frequencys.
If I didn't get a reply on plymouth mil the next one I would try would be london mil. Then london info.
Sometimes the civi controller won't have the time to find out for you or all they will say is its hot.
Its actually hellva lot of work for the controller to find out etc And I know they provide a service etc. Personally I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the pilot to have a bit of forethought and just speak to the mil direct as they have the yes/no call anyway.
Another frequency I would have in your back pocket is western radar another bunch of fine people. If you were a bit further west.
Its always worth having a list of the mil frequencys.
If I didn't get a reply on plymouth mil the next one I would try would be london mil. Then london info.
Sometimes the civi controller won't have the time to find out for you or all they will say is its hot.
Its actually hellva lot of work for the controller to find out etc And I know they provide a service etc. Personally I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the pilot to have a bit of forethought and just speak to the mil direct as they have the yes/no call anyway.
Another frequency I would have in your back pocket is western radar another bunch of fine people. If you were a bit further west.
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No need to use telephone. Things can change over time due to operational reasons.
No computer display to quickly find that info? So backwards!
Its actually hellva lot of work for the controller to find out etc
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In NZ we can call Information or the FISB frequency, but they do suggest you ring ahead before flying. in reality its better to call on the radio trying to get an answer on the phone is very time consuming.
FK
FK
The London Info FISO has computer input on which they can just tap in the DA number and it comes up with any notified activity. Normal ATC units (LARS) are unlikely to have this, but Plymouth Mil will have the info as one of the reasons they exist is to provide services to aircraft in the vicinity of the channel DAs.
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Under ICAO, the flight information service (called basic service in the UK, e.g. London Info) is supposed to be able to give you that sort of info.
There are indeed phone numbers for a lot of them but they can be hard to dig out, and obviously, short of having a satellite phone, you cannot really use them while airborne.
The above general comments apply UK and abroad.
A foreign pilot flying via the UK is unlikely to know about Plymouth Military for example.
There are indeed phone numbers for a lot of them but they can be hard to dig out, and obviously, short of having a satellite phone, you cannot really use them while airborne.
The above general comments apply UK and abroad.
A foreign pilot flying via the UK is unlikely to know about Plymouth Military for example.
DACS
Plenty of information (including frequencies) regarding DACS / DAAIS is printed on the CAA half-mill chart.
Of course if you're a child of the magenta and turn your nose up at the thought of a paper chart, then you won't have such information unless it's buried in some file on your latest iTab in-cockpit fashion accessory.....
Surely something this basic is still taught at PPL level?
It's also available in the UK Mil AIP - which is hidden behind a paywall, unfortunately. It seems you have to pay for safety in the UK, even though your taxes paid for it in the first place.....
Of course if you're a child of the magenta and turn your nose up at the thought of a paper chart, then you won't have such information unless it's buried in some file on your latest iTab in-cockpit fashion accessory.....
Surely something this basic is still taught at PPL level?
It's also available in the UK Mil AIP - which is hidden behind a paywall, unfortunately. It seems you have to pay for safety in the UK, even though your taxes paid for it in the first place.....
Last edited by BEagle; 9th Jul 2012 at 10:58.
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It's also available in the UK Mil AIP - which is hidden behind a paywall, unfortunately. It seems you have to pay for safety in the UK, even though your taxes paid for it in the first place.....
Seriously, who would pay to get the AIP when it they have already been funded out of taxation?
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Plenty of information (including frequencies) regarding DACS / DAAIS is printed on the CAA half-mill chart.
PiperArcher
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I can't tell whether your comments were directed specifically at me BEagle, but I'll answer them anyway. Firstly I don't have any devices capable of producing a magenta line, as I actually quite enjoy dead reckoning. So yes, paper chart all the way for me. As for it being taught at PPL level: yes, I'm sure the answer is most likely to be in the green Air Navigation textbook. Perhaps I should have just re-read the relevant chapter rather than bothering PPRuNe with "something this basic"!
Seriously, who would pay to get the AIP when it they have already been funded out of taxation?
Rich,
If you look on the chart you will see 3 symbols in front of D026. A quick look at the legend will inform you that one symbol tells you that you can phone Plymouth Ops before take off; another tells you that London Information will provide an activity information service over the radio.
You may also find ENR 5-1 & ENR 6-5-1-1 useful.
As well as being in the AIP they are written on the flipping chart!
If you look on the chart you will see 3 symbols in front of D026. A quick look at the legend will inform you that one symbol tells you that you can phone Plymouth Ops before take off; another tells you that London Information will provide an activity information service over the radio.
You may also find ENR 5-1 & ENR 6-5-1-1 useful.
There are indeed phone numbers for a lot of them but they can be hard to dig out
Last edited by Prop swinger; 11th Jul 2012 at 16:34.
I did rather have a mental image of a Rab C Nesbit soundalike in a bit of a "Ha' a drink wi' me, pal?" state of mind.....
How's the head today, m_J?
Times have changed at Brize now - for the better! Many years ago I took off from Benson to climb to FL100 for some hi-rot spinning - and the only clear patch was north of Brize. Well to the south of them, I gave them a courtesy call to advise that I was passing FL45 and would be climbing to FL100 through their overhead, remaining outside the CTR. Whereupon some rancid crone told me "Not above FL60!" in a 'nanny knows best' voice. So I repeated my call and she snapped back with the same 'instruction'.
"Well, I tried to be helpful. Anyway, I will be climbing FL100 and I will be remaining outside the CTR. Squawking 7000, changing to en-route, good-day....click!".
Then a little devil on my shoulder turned Mode C off until I was clear of their overhead....
Childish? Yes - but it made the point!
How's the head today, m_J?
Times have changed at Brize now - for the better! Many years ago I took off from Benson to climb to FL100 for some hi-rot spinning - and the only clear patch was north of Brize. Well to the south of them, I gave them a courtesy call to advise that I was passing FL45 and would be climbing to FL100 through their overhead, remaining outside the CTR. Whereupon some rancid crone told me "Not above FL60!" in a 'nanny knows best' voice. So I repeated my call and she snapped back with the same 'instruction'.
"Well, I tried to be helpful. Anyway, I will be climbing FL100 and I will be remaining outside the CTR. Squawking 7000, changing to en-route, good-day....click!".
Then a little devil on my shoulder turned Mode C off until I was clear of their overhead....
Childish? Yes - but it made the point!
Last edited by BEagle; 10th Jul 2012 at 06:42.