crossing the channel
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There is a particular method for getting into a raft if you find yourself in the water to start with (in fact probably more than one) but the best thing is to have a rapid exit procedure designed to enable you to inflate it outside the cockpit (you would be mad to inflate it inside the cockpit 
) and step directly into it, while holding the activation cord to make sure it cannot get away.
I don't think that procedure can be employed with a high wing aircraft unless the hull is sufficiently floaty, for long enough.
It's hard to illustrate without pictures but in essence you bounce your upper body into the raft, and once that is in there, getting the legs in is fairly easy. FWIW, I have practiced it in a pool with a "boat" much smaller than the raft I mentioned earlier.
Obviously one needs to be relatively mobile/flexible to do this.
Once a person is in the raft, it is easy for others to get in.
The thing to absolutely avoid is throwing the raft into the water (inflated or not) hoping that you can swim to it. Wind will carry it away faster than almost anybody can swim.
JO, no point in having a swipe at me, I know what "microlights" look like. I also can't believe that the closed cockpit tricycle gear ones cannot carry a 7kg raft
Far more likely, it is against the "community culture" to spend money.
) and step directly into it, while holding the activation cord to make sure it cannot get away.I don't think that procedure can be employed with a high wing aircraft unless the hull is sufficiently floaty, for long enough.
It's hard to illustrate without pictures but in essence you bounce your upper body into the raft, and once that is in there, getting the legs in is fairly easy. FWIW, I have practiced it in a pool with a "boat" much smaller than the raft I mentioned earlier.
Obviously one needs to be relatively mobile/flexible to do this.
Once a person is in the raft, it is easy for others to get in.
The thing to absolutely avoid is throwing the raft into the water (inflated or not) hoping that you can swim to it. Wind will carry it away faster than almost anybody can swim.
JO, no point in having a swipe at me, I know what "microlights" look like. I also can't believe that the closed cockpit tricycle gear ones cannot carry a 7kg raft
Far more likely, it is against the "community culture" to spend money.
Last edited by peterh337; 8th Jul 2012 at 13:14.
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Rod 1
Quote:-Cobblers! On the short crossing my MCR is out of gliding range of land for 90sec. Le sleeve is the busiest shipping lane in the world. You often have at least one military vessel and a number of yachts within gliding distance. Most average PPL's will not get into a raft unless they have had specialist training.
I hope we don't have to inscribe this on your headstone, but the numbers when it comes to ditching without a life raft are not with you.
I hope we don't have to inscribe this on your headstone, but the numbers when it comes to ditching without a life raft are not with you.
I know what "microlights" look like.
I also can't believe that the closed cockpit tricycle gear ones cannot carry a 7kg raft
Far more likely, it is against the "community culture" to spend money.
Myself am not going to spend a single penny on a raft until I see clear proof that it has at least some chance of saving my life if/when going down into Neptunus' welcoming waves.
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 8th Jul 2012 at 13:54.
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Might have been a stab at humour, of course.
Nobody said they can't - the issue is solely a legal one.
It's OK to be XX kg over MTOW if one is just "fat", or if one is carrying an instructor, but it's not OK if it is due to stuff being carried?
Surely microlighting is about pragmatism, and about limited budgets
Myself am not going to spend a single penny on a raft until I see clear proof that it has at least some chance of saving my life
One could say the same about maintenance, etc.
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And one also had paraplegia, which can't have helped him escape.
There seems to be two different views on here: those who insist on the necessity of a carrying a raft and those who prefer to minimize the need to carry a raft.
Mine is a third view: until I get the subject sorted out, I will not fly out of gliding distance from the beach. Which regrettably keeps me away from this beautiful though somewhat mysterious place called "merry old Engiand" ...
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 8th Jul 2012 at 14:53.
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In flying, one should always have a credible escape route.
For an engine loss over land, it's a forced landing (OK, there are time windows when that will be tricky e.g. forests but one tries to minimise those)
For an engine loss over water, a raft is the only credible option IMHO.
For icing, it's a descent into warmer air (but without hitting the terrain), etc, etc
Not flying over water is fine but it restricts your "fun" options considerably. A £1000 raft is a pretty cost effective way to cover that one.
For an engine loss over land, it's a forced landing (OK, there are time windows when that will be tricky e.g. forests but one tries to minimise those)
For an engine loss over water, a raft is the only credible option IMHO.
For icing, it's a descent into warmer air (but without hitting the terrain), etc, etc
Not flying over water is fine but it restricts your "fun" options considerably. A £1000 raft is a pretty cost effective way to cover that one.
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For some, myself included, there is no question of carrying a dinghy to cross the channel. My aircraft is single seat with neither the space nor the payload to carry one yet I have been over and back. Nor was it an option on the more frequent occasions when I have flown longer overwater legs to the Western Isles and the Northern Isles although I do like to cross with sufficient altitude to offer at least a chance of gliding to shore. You either accept the risk or you don't but it's your choice.
One final thought though. Many years ago I read that most engine failures occur when you change some setting, so make all your cruise adjustments and checks before coasting out then touch nothing until you coast in.
One final thought though. Many years ago I read that most engine failures occur when you change some setting, so make all your cruise adjustments and checks before coasting out then touch nothing until you coast in.
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Given the 90 sec the chances are on my side.
30 years ago I was something of an expert at open water survival. As part of a safety research exercise I spent a week based on Guernsey with a team testing kit and techniques. One of the excersises was to take a group of around 30 first year Plymouth poly students, brief them in detail and them put them in the water alongside a fully inflated raft in open water and see what happened. The students were wearing light clothing and personal buoyancy aids. The only students that got into the raft were ones with previous experience. Without training a raft is of very little help. To put out a statement that if your engine fails over a stretch of water 18.5nm wide you are likely to die is just plain wrong unless you are a compete fool and have no plan at all. If you are planing a longer crossing then take it very very seriously.
Rod1
30 years ago I was something of an expert at open water survival. As part of a safety research exercise I spent a week based on Guernsey with a team testing kit and techniques. One of the excersises was to take a group of around 30 first year Plymouth poly students, brief them in detail and them put them in the water alongside a fully inflated raft in open water and see what happened. The students were wearing light clothing and personal buoyancy aids. The only students that got into the raft were ones with previous experience. Without training a raft is of very little help. To put out a statement that if your engine fails over a stretch of water 18.5nm wide you are likely to die is just plain wrong unless you are a compete fool and have no plan at all. If you are planing a longer crossing then take it very very seriously.
Rod1
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Mine is a third view: until I get the subject sorted out, I will not fly out of gliding distance from the beach. Which regrettably keeps me away from this beautiful though somewhat mysterious place called "merry old Engiand" ...
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Jan - Get a PLB, lifejackets, and go with someone who has done it before. Provided you are in a machine without a known history of unreliable running, or a poor maintenance history, and you fly as high as you are allowed, then you'll be fine and I promise you'll enjoy it. I find I feel safer giving regular position reports to London Information, and to get onto Lille quickly when I cross the boundary.
If you fly a two-stroke weight-shift, take something else.
You'll love France, they do GA in the the most wonderfully friendly and easy-going way. I'm now used to being laughed at when asking where to pay the landing fee. French club aviation is just fantastic.
If you fly a two-stroke weight-shift, take something else.
You'll love France, they do GA in the the most wonderfully friendly and easy-going way. I'm now used to being laughed at when asking where to pay the landing fee. French club aviation is just fantastic.
@FleetFlyer: Thank you, the joys of flying in France I have been beginning to discover. It is the UK that must wait.
@Peter: who mentioned NOT flying over water? I have crossed both the rivers Schelde and Meuse!
@GtW: I thought I had done that calculation before, but looked into it again. Surprise! Disregarding wind, and the height of the famous white cliffs of Dover, I calculated 35 kms to cross, so max 18 kms to glide. With a 9:1 glide ratio*, that would require 2000 m of altitude which comes to FL65 in ISA. The one question is whether I'd be allowed to go that high - microlights are normally not allowed in controlled airspace. But I don't yet have any UK maps or charts to check.
*from EuroFOX Aviation Ltd - Aircraft spec and performance - the EuroFox is, ahem, how shall I say, err, closely related to my Apollo Fox. The same web page has some interesting weight figures.
@Peter: who mentioned NOT flying over water? I have crossed both the rivers Schelde and Meuse!
@GtW: I thought I had done that calculation before, but looked into it again. Surprise! Disregarding wind, and the height of the famous white cliffs of Dover, I calculated 35 kms to cross, so max 18 kms to glide. With a 9:1 glide ratio*, that would require 2000 m of altitude which comes to FL65 in ISA. The one question is whether I'd be allowed to go that high - microlights are normally not allowed in controlled airspace. But I don't yet have any UK maps or charts to check.
*from EuroFOX Aviation Ltd - Aircraft spec and performance - the EuroFox is, ahem, how shall I say, err, closely related to my Apollo Fox. The same web page has some interesting weight figures.
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 8th Jul 2012 at 19:40.
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If you cross Hope Point to Cap Gris Nez, you will be across in somewhere around 15-25 mins, depending on your aircraft and wind. If you climb to the max allowed as vanilla PPL, VFR, you are pretty much within gliding range of land.
For many of of us whose aeroplanes cannot carry much, the risk is deemed acceptable, if everything else is on our side (preparation, preparation, preparation). I write as one whose aversion to water is extreme, although I work on the same bit mentioned above. I joke that if the worst happens, I ought to be able ditch upwind of any ferry and know at least someone on board.
The joy of flying in France (and beyond) is worth it.
Jan, we'd be happy to see you over here and Headcorn is a most helpful and friendly place to start. FleetFlyer is right.
For many of of us whose aeroplanes cannot carry much, the risk is deemed acceptable, if everything else is on our side (preparation, preparation, preparation). I write as one whose aversion to water is extreme, although I work on the same bit mentioned above. I joke that if the worst happens, I ought to be able ditch upwind of any ferry and know at least someone on board.
The joy of flying in France (and beyond) is worth it.
Jan, we'd be happy to see you over here and Headcorn is a most helpful and friendly place to start. FleetFlyer is right.
Going slight off at a tangent...if flying a flexwing and you need to ditch...what's the recommended procedure for making an escape...if there is one that is....stay with the a/c till it hits the water....or jump from say 20-30ft,
Sound very hazardous trying to get out from one underwater with all those rigging wires.
Nick.
Sound very hazardous trying to get out from one underwater with all those rigging wires.
Nick.
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...if flying a flexwing and you need to ditch...what's the recommended procedure for making an escape...if there is one that is....stay with the a/c till it hits the water....or jump from say 20-30ft,
Sound very hazardous trying to get out from one underwater with all those rigging wires.
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Sound very hazardous trying to get out from one underwater with all those rigging wires.
- Initially leave your seatbelt fastened.
- Forget what is up or down, just orient yourself against the aircraft.
- Visualize your way out
- Remove any stuff that needs to be removed. Like windows and such. In helicopter egress training we were actually required to do a 10-second mock winding down of the imaginary window. Or something like that.
- With one hand, grab something sturdy in the direction of your exit. When doing inverted helicopter egress training, this was simply the window sill, but in a flexwing you might need to grab the triangle or something like that.
- Only now, with the other hand, unbuckle your seatbelt.
- With the first hand, pull yourself towards your exit point. If your exit point is not very near, you might need to pull yourself hand over hand towards it. It is very important to visualize this beforehand so you can get there by feel. Ignore any up/down sensation. As long as you are in the aircraft the only thing important is to orient yourself in respect to the aircraft.
You should now be clear of the aircraft. Orient yourself and swim up. Or simply deploy the life jacket.
