Glider down in a field in Angus
AFAIK because of legislation changes pilots must now have a Bronze to do a DI without supervision, so no more signing off in the log book. However we do teach doing a DI. Each type of glider has it's own gotchas - or at least each type I've done a DI on.
Any task described in the aircraft flight manual as preparing the aircraft for flight (Example: assembling the glider wings or pre-flight), is considered to be a pilot task and is not considered a Pilot-owner maintenance task and therefore does not require a Certificate of Release to Service.
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Since in the UK there is no formal GPL exam, at what point in time is a person considered a "pilot", and no longer a "student pilot" flying under the authorization of an instructor?
I would assume that's the earliest opportunity that a person could do a DI and sign off the aircraft by him/herself. Until then it would be the instructors responsibility.
If the BGA doesn't consider you a "pilot" until you achieve bronze, the point is moot, right?
I would assume that's the earliest opportunity that a person could do a DI and sign off the aircraft by him/herself. Until then it would be the instructors responsibility.
If the BGA doesn't consider you a "pilot" until you achieve bronze, the point is moot, right?
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Oh the irony !
Well after starting this thread about a glider down in a field near Melgund (Brechin) I was out flying the Maule on Saturday and upon my return to my grass strip (09-27) the wind was from the North and was pushing up against my planes xwind limits (and exceeding my personal capabilities by a mile). After circling around for 30 minutes with no change I decided to go over to our other farm and see if one of the winter wheat fields with North/South tramlines would work for a precautionary landing until conditions improved at the home strip. One in particular looked like a good option and I landed and left the Maule there overnight. Interestingly, it was about a 1/2 mile from where I'd seen the glider, and yes, some nosy bastard called to report a "plane down in a field near Melgund" Bloody typical !!!!
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[quoteYou checked out gliding yet?][/quote]
Going to go over to Drumshade Gliding when we get done with this snow. In the meantime I have been reading up on "mountain waves" and rotors etc. and have decided that if I am going to be flying the Maule around the highlands (and Grampians in particular) I need to figure how to read and perhaps anticipate what the winds are doing and their affects. Learning a bit about gliding appears to be one way to achieve that.
Going to go over to Drumshade Gliding when we get done with this snow. In the meantime I have been reading up on "mountain waves" and rotors etc. and have decided that if I am going to be flying the Maule around the highlands (and Grampians in particular) I need to figure how to read and perhaps anticipate what the winds are doing and their affects. Learning a bit about gliding appears to be one way to achieve that.
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From BGA laws and Rules 2010 edition (the latest and current version:
---
“THE LAW
OPERATIONAL REGULATIONS
ANO 2009
3.1
(b) Pilot/Owner maintenance including daily inspection (DI) must be carried out and certified in accordance with EU regulation
2042/2003 as amended. Pilots carrying out maintenance must
hold a valid pilot’s licence (or equivalent)
[snip]
3.4 All gliders operated from BGA club sites shall be inspected before flying on each day. Club gliders shall be inspected by club approved persons who must sign that the glider is serviceable before it is flown on that day.
-----
As stated above, “Bronze” is taken as the equivalent of a licence. There is a formal exam for Bronze, though again AFAIK it does not include details of how to do a DI, and certainly does not have a practical DI examination.
Club pilots who DI club gliders are often pre-Bronze but are then presumed (AFAIK) to be doing so under the supervision of a qualified pilot or instructor.
Chris N.
---
“THE LAW
OPERATIONAL REGULATIONS
ANO 2009
3.1
(b) Pilot/Owner maintenance including daily inspection (DI) must be carried out and certified in accordance with EU regulation
2042/2003 as amended. Pilots carrying out maintenance must
hold a valid pilot’s licence (or equivalent)
[snip]
3.4 All gliders operated from BGA club sites shall be inspected before flying on each day. Club gliders shall be inspected by club approved persons who must sign that the glider is serviceable before it is flown on that day.
-----
As stated above, “Bronze” is taken as the equivalent of a licence. There is a formal exam for Bronze, though again AFAIK it does not include details of how to do a DI, and certainly does not have a practical DI examination.
Club pilots who DI club gliders are often pre-Bronze but are then presumed (AFAIK) to be doing so under the supervision of a qualified pilot or instructor.
Chris N.
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It is certainly worth trying, I did something similar last year and whilst I still have some way to go it has helped with reading the Sky. I think you will find the differences in how power and glider pilots view flying in general and more specifically, cloud, turbulence, altitude useful.
You never know you may even enjoy it.
BB
You never know you may even enjoy it.
BB
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Hi Piperboy
drop in at Feshiebridge (Cairngorm Gliding Club) some weekend! (PPR). Nice strip - but not in Easterlies though!
Watched a series on army helicopter pilots training once - they were flying in Snowdonia and the trainee commented - "Lots of downdraught here" - well duh, yes, on the lee side of a big ridge!
Rotor is even more to be avoided!
drop in at Feshiebridge (Cairngorm Gliding Club) some weekend! (PPR). Nice strip - but not in Easterlies though!
Watched a series on army helicopter pilots training once - they were flying in Snowdonia and the trainee commented - "Lots of downdraught here" - well duh, yes, on the lee side of a big ridge!
Rotor is even more to be avoided!
3.1
(b) Pilot/Owner maintenance including daily inspection (DI) must be carried out and certified in accordance with EU regulation
2042/2003 as amended. Pilots carrying out maintenance must
hold a valid pilot’s licence (or equivalent)
(b) Pilot/Owner maintenance including daily inspection (DI) must be carried out and certified in accordance with EU regulation
2042/2003 as amended. Pilots carrying out maintenance must
hold a valid pilot’s licence (or equivalent)
Regulation 2042/2003 is otherwise known as part M. During the consultation period I was active in getting the then proposed rules changed because as written only licensed pilots would be able to perform pilot/owner maintenance - which would have been disastrous for the UK gliding community who, in the period between Part M coming into force and glider pilots getting EASA SPLs or LAPS(S)s, would have been prohibited from doing such activity. The change was to get the words 'or equivalent' added where it specified that the pilot doing maintenance had to be licensed. The BGA, presumably in consultation with the CAA decided that Bronze is equivalent.
The original EASA proposals also made it a requirement that things like rigging, removing/replacing canopies (think Skylark and Oly), inflating tyres and many other things traditionally done by glider pilots would have needed to be signed off by an engineer every time. The way round this, which was accepted by EASA and put into the current regulations, was to allow the pilot to do anything that is a permitted activity in the specific aircraft's flight manual. The consequence is that a DI that is documented in a specific aircraft's flight manual is not deemed to be maintenance and can be done by a pilot without a licence or equivalent.
Coming to the BGA's position. They want pilots doing DIs to be Bronze holders. This is not an unreasonable position and those of us who are members of BGA clubs are required to abide with this. To claim that this is an EASA legal requirement is, though, incorrect. I believe that the BGA actually know and accept that.
Prior to the BGA stating that DIs must be done by Bronze holders the situation was that solo pilots were, typically, signed off type-by-type by an instructor or inspector to DI club aircraft and that when becoming members of a syndicate their partners would show them how to rig and DI their glider. As far as I know that system was also satisfactory.
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Jim, Hi. I didn’t mean to agree or disagree with you, just quoting the BGA document for what it’s worth. I was trying to clarify some points for other people posting such as Backpacker. I suspect I agree with you more than not. The bit about BGA sites is a BGA Operational Regulation, which we the gliding community have imposed upon ourselves, not law.
Certainly I was signed off for doing DI long before Bronze, but that was in 1970 and EASA had not been invented, and gliders lay outside the ANO.
I do agree that we rarely had problems with early solo pilots etc. doing DI (and insisting on Bronze + would not eliminate rigging errors – they occasionally happen, and usually to people much more experienced).
Regards - Chris
Certainly I was signed off for doing DI long before Bronze, but that was in 1970 and EASA had not been invented, and gliders lay outside the ANO.
I do agree that we rarely had problems with early solo pilots etc. doing DI (and insisting on Bronze + would not eliminate rigging errors – they occasionally happen, and usually to people much more experienced).
Regards - Chris
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as has been mentioned, de-rigging a glider and packing it away in it's trailer to bring home is standard proceedures and nothing special. No reason for concern unless......
Putting your plane in the hangar, all rigged up, is of course the best option, but there's not always room (though most glider pilots are experts in arranging the planes)....
Putting your plane in the hangar, all rigged up, is of course the best option, but there's not always room (though most glider pilots are experts in arranging the planes)....
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There was also the retrieve driver who said “I wasn’t sure which was your trailer and we both have 15 metre gliders, so yours ought to fit into my trailer which I have brought.”
It didn’t.
Chris N
It didn’t.
Chris N
And the famous RAFGSA Bicester story about the chap who went to retrieve his friend from a field in the north of England. He pulled up into the field, opened the door of the trailer and so discovered that there was already a Skylark 4 in residence!
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Glider Flying
First of all, well done to your nephew for showing some concern. Secondly, to offset all the grief that some members have given you, why don't the two of you come along to the Scottish Gliding Centre (just google for the address etc.) and I will give you a guided tour of the place. If the weather is OK, we can go flying - but we'll try not to do any field landings. E-mail me via the forum and we can make some arrangements.
Who knows, we might tempt you to take up gliding.
Ian
Who knows, we might tempt you to take up gliding.
Ian
Talking of 3-piece suites in a glider trailer; Nick Nichols asked me if he could borrow the Ka-6 trailer to collect a 3-piece suite from east London. Having nothing better to do, I went with him.
On the way back we stopped at one set of traffic lights in London. A very posh Rolls Royce pulled up alongside and down came the electric window (unusual in those days). City gent leans across and says;
"I say old boy, what DO you have in that trailer"?
Without hesitation Nick said "Deep frozen pythons mate" and wound his window back up again.
RR driver looked extremely puzzled.
On the way back we stopped at one set of traffic lights in London. A very posh Rolls Royce pulled up alongside and down came the electric window (unusual in those days). City gent leans across and says;
"I say old boy, what DO you have in that trailer"?
Without hesitation Nick said "Deep frozen pythons mate" and wound his window back up again.
RR driver looked extremely puzzled.
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Gliding Interest
Thanks Jan, my view is simple - we aviators need to stick together and remember that our sport gives different things to different people. Regulation across Europe is going to make it difficult enough for us, without getting grief from the inside. So, my offer is open to anyone who wants to visit us at the Scottish Gliding Centre and, if I am there, we can do the airside tour and if really keen, we might get some flying in too. I am a Basic Instructor at the club, have an NPPL (SLMG) with a share in a Touring Motor Glider (G-BSUO). Oh, and I am the vice chairman of the club too.
Look us up, and drop in - you might get a pleasant surprise.
Look us up, and drop in - you might get a pleasant surprise.
