How long to issue license?
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There is nothing stopping you being signed out for solo circuits or even a nav ex by an instructor until it turns up.
You have to stick to the same rules as before your test and application though. So no pax and you need signed out.
Some places will charge you dual rate for this service some may not.I never did because it kept the student current and it also encouraged them to come in and hire and not think of the school as money grabbing.
You have to stick to the same rules as before your test and application though. So no pax and you need signed out.
Some places will charge you dual rate for this service some may not.I never did because it kept the student current and it also encouraged them to come in and hire and not think of the school as money grabbing.
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All the nines - not sure, the CAA is an independent corporation as you say, however, checking CAA jobs they refer to flexitime and Benenden healthcare which are both markers of civil service type jobs.
"The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), which is a public corporation, was established by Parliament in 1972 as an independent specialist aviation regulator and provider of air traffic services.
The UK Government requires that the CAA’s costs are met entirely from its charges on those whom it regulates. Unlike many other countries, there is no direct Government funding of the CAA’s work."
My understanding is that despite passing a skills test, you don't have a license until it has been issued. So it's not a case of the flying club not 'letting' you fly solo until they've seen the license, the fact is you don't yet have a license.
The day after passing my test, I got signed out on the PA28 then did a short cross-country then lots of circuits. I told the school what I was going to do out of courtesy, but there was no question of me either being under the supervision of an instructor let alone paying for one. Then I went home and that was that for the next 3 months.
Perhaps one of the examiners here can clarify the situation?
ANO Article 50 - Requirement for an appropriate licence
Subject to the exceptions set out in articles 51 to 60, a person must not act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom without holding an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order.
Subject to the exceptions set out in articles 51 to 60, a person must not act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom without holding an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order.
ANO Article 52 - Exemption for solo flying training
(1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that:
(a) the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b) the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c) the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d) no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(e) the aircraft is not flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or aerial work other than aerial work which consists of the giving of instruction in flying or the conducting of flying tests; and
(f) the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot's licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor's rating or an assistant flying instructor's rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.
(1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that:
(a) the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b) the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c) the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d) no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(e) the aircraft is not flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or aerial work other than aerial work which consists of the giving of instruction in flying or the conducting of flying tests; and
(f) the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot's licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor's rating or an assistant flying instructor's rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.
A good point... But if you can't add the hours to your logbook until the CAA has read it and sent it back with your licence, then they will never know and so I don't see how it can possibly be said to be 'for the purposes of acquiring a license'.
I trust the senior posters when they say that you can't use it without supervision. But my misconception was that you had been granted a form of temporary license, not that you could temporarily fly without one.
For comparison, I just looked up the DVLA website, and they say you can drive on your pass certificate before getting your driving license back. They also say they aim to process them within 3 weeks. I can't find any relevant legislation in the Road Traffic Act, though I admit I haven't looked very hard.
I trust the senior posters when they say that you can't use it without supervision. But my misconception was that you had been granted a form of temporary license, not that you could temporarily fly without one.
For comparison, I just looked up the DVLA website, and they say you can drive on your pass certificate before getting your driving license back. They also say they aim to process them within 3 weeks. I can't find any relevant legislation in the Road Traffic Act, though I admit I haven't looked very hard.
I agree that the practice of flying solo, under the supervision of an FI, in the time between passing the PPL Skill Test and receiving the licence is built on shaky legal ground. The case is usually made that such flying is counted towards the experience requirements for a subsequent revalidation of the SEP Class Rating and, therefore, falls under the terms of Article 52, except that the Article refers specifically to the grant or renewal of a licence or rating and not to revalidation. Qualification for the issue of the licence is not relevant - if you were not already qualified, your application would not be with the CAA.
However, it is a well established practice with which the CAA seems content and unless/until it is tested in court, the true legality will not be known. As of this Sunday, of course, the ANO no longer has any effect in this area as it is over-ridden by the EU Basic Regulation, which is even more vague in its wording
Any flight under the supervision of an ATO can be said to be 'training', whether for a licence/rating/certificate or not.
However, it is a well established practice with which the CAA seems content and unless/until it is tested in court, the true legality will not be known. As of this Sunday, of course, the ANO no longer has any effect in this area as it is over-ridden by the EU Basic Regulation, which is even more vague in its wording
Article 7
1. ....
2. Except when under training, a person may only act as a pilot if he or she holds a licence and medical certificate appropriate to the operation to be performed.
1. ....
2. Except when under training, a person may only act as a pilot if he or she holds a licence and medical certificate appropriate to the operation to be performed.
The case is usually made that such flying is counted towards the experience requirements for a subsequent revalidation of the SEP Class Rating and, therefore, falls under the terms of Article 52, except that the Article refers specifically to the grant or renewal of a licence or rating and not to revalidation.
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tom_the_pilot:
We may be waiting a long time. I can't even find the CAA service charter (that stated they aimed for a 10 working day turnaround) on their website any more. Suggests that it is not likely to be processed in anything like that time period.
3 weeks and counting... Don't expect anything to happen next week with Easter, but going to need my passport soon after that, really hoping I don't have to make a nuisance of myself on the phone to get it back.
We may be waiting a long time. I can't even find the CAA service charter (that stated they aimed for a 10 working day turnaround) on their website any more. Suggests that it is not likely to be processed in anything like that time period.
3 weeks and counting... Don't expect anything to happen next week with Easter, but going to need my passport soon after that, really hoping I don't have to make a nuisance of myself on the phone to get it back.
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they have had mine since the 20th march for IMC adding, they not looked at mine either. They confirmed that they had until July to add them, nothing from April 8th is relevant to the IMC addition. I asked them if I would have it back by July, she laughed saying "WE ARE BEHIND BUT NOT BY THAT MUCH".
I was being serious....
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When I spoke to them last Friday they said they were processing applications received on 8th March, therefore my best guess is they'll get round to looking at mine very soon after the Easter hols.
I believe tomorrow is an official holiday in England & Wales so I don't think it will be processed by 8th now.....
Maybe later next week I'll get the phone call asking me for another £18 (or whatever) for the return of my log book
I believe tomorrow is an official holiday in England & Wales so I don't think it will be processed by 8th now.....
Maybe later next week I'll get the phone call asking me for another £18 (or whatever) for the return of my log book
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Has anyone had any experience of this recently? The LAA issued the recommendation to the CAA for my NPPL today, and i really hope to have it back by Easter to take a friend flying who is visiting them.
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I tested a candidate for an NPPL GFT mid Feb and I heard they had it back today. I did spend a long time making sure their application was clear and complete before being sent.
I also needed an application on my own licence processed and that took 7 days so not too bad.
I also needed an application on my own licence processed and that took 7 days so not too bad.
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I have been trying to help a friend who lost his UK PPL licence a number of years ago and wishes to start flying gain.
Lost licence application sent in February.....E mail confirming all info required and should be sent out within 28 days. 15 weeks later after e mailing the licensing department, we find out they sent an email to an incorrect address demanding a Class 2 medical, and a copy every form they actually sent to him from their records to be sent back to them. They have no idea of their own rules.
Why demand a medical at all? never mind a class 2 when a self dec is sufficient. Why demand copies of paperwork that they sent to him? And worst of all............why tell him he can't fly an EASA aircraft on a UK PPL. He can until 08/04/2018 and watch this space for that to change too.
Apology? ........................nah, If indeed the rules come into play in April next year, he has lost almost 5 months, when he could have re qualified his PPL before looking at buying a permit Aircraft.
Yes I am angry. They are NOT fit for purpose.
Lost licence application sent in February.....E mail confirming all info required and should be sent out within 28 days. 15 weeks later after e mailing the licensing department, we find out they sent an email to an incorrect address demanding a Class 2 medical, and a copy every form they actually sent to him from their records to be sent back to them. They have no idea of their own rules.
Why demand a medical at all? never mind a class 2 when a self dec is sufficient. Why demand copies of paperwork that they sent to him? And worst of all............why tell him he can't fly an EASA aircraft on a UK PPL. He can until 08/04/2018 and watch this space for that to change too.
Apology? ........................nah, If indeed the rules come into play in April next year, he has lost almost 5 months, when he could have re qualified his PPL before looking at buying a permit Aircraft.
Yes I am angry. They are NOT fit for purpose.
