class 2 medicals- what do you want?
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class 2 medicals- what do you want?
Hi Chaps
THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO ADVERTISE MY SERVICES.
Im a class 2 AME in the middle of the country. Ive been thinking about how to improve my services to pilots, so rather than me think what you might want, tell me!
All opinions and comments are gratefully received - the kinds of things Im thinking about are:
where to offer my services - would you like/want to fly in/fly out?
would you like (and pay for) extra things like cholesterol testing/PSA testing etc...if yes, whats reasonable? These tests do cost so if people are prepared to pay only LESS than their cost ->non starter.
what would you look for in a web site?
what are you paying at present?
do you like/want a reminder when your medical is due?
how about a photocard certificate?
how far are you prepared to travel to see an AME?
regards
Andrew.
THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO ADVERTISE MY SERVICES.
Im a class 2 AME in the middle of the country. Ive been thinking about how to improve my services to pilots, so rather than me think what you might want, tell me!
All opinions and comments are gratefully received - the kinds of things Im thinking about are:
where to offer my services - would you like/want to fly in/fly out?
would you like (and pay for) extra things like cholesterol testing/PSA testing etc...if yes, whats reasonable? These tests do cost so if people are prepared to pay only LESS than their cost ->non starter.
what would you look for in a web site?
what are you paying at present?
do you like/want a reminder when your medical is due?
how about a photocard certificate?
how far are you prepared to travel to see an AME?
regards
Andrew.
Speaking from far away so perhaps not applicable, yet here goes for what it is worth:
I am VERY satisfied with my yearly class 2 check, the doctor is a fine person, I actually look forward to each visit. The one thing he could improve, for me, is to create an archive of the collected data, with perhaps some graphs to show the long-term trends.
At present I am just checked for compliancy, but I'd be glad to have some indication of how far I am from the limits, and how fast I am approaching. This is especially true for the electrocardiogrammes, as I know my heart function is non-standard.
Blood analysis should not be your concern, I have one done by my GP yearly, just before the class 2 check, and I keep some of those results in a little spreadsheet.
FWIW I have paid 97 or 98 euro's for each of the past three years, but that might be an unfair comparison.
I am VERY satisfied with my yearly class 2 check, the doctor is a fine person, I actually look forward to each visit. The one thing he could improve, for me, is to create an archive of the collected data, with perhaps some graphs to show the long-term trends.
At present I am just checked for compliancy, but I'd be glad to have some indication of how far I am from the limits, and how fast I am approaching. This is especially true for the electrocardiogrammes, as I know my heart function is non-standard.
Blood analysis should not be your concern, I have one done by my GP yearly, just before the class 2 check, and I keep some of those results in a little spreadsheet.
FWIW I have paid 97 or 98 euro's for each of the past three years, but that might be an unfair comparison.
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thanks Jan, good points about looking for trends, from year to year.
I think Ill definitely incorporate that into what I offer going forward. andrew
I think Ill definitely incorporate that into what I offer going forward. andrew
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You know, one thing I'd like is a follow up report. I go for medicals for work and flying yet I really have no idea what the health trend is, other than I have passed.
Would be kind of nice if a few days later you received a report on the various findings, along with past tends, recommendations, general physical state etc...For example:
ECG: Normal
Blood Pressure: Has shown a slight upward trend over the past 5 visits but this can be explained by increasing age and is considered within normal limits. Consideration should be given to increasing exercise though.
Eyesight: Slight decrease in blah blah over the past 5 medicals. This is normal though possibly by the time the person reaches next medical, then it might be close to the limit when eye glasses should be worn.
Cholestrol: Was measured at XX. This is slightly high and the patient should consider a diet to increase Omega three and reduce chips and burgers.
Fasting blood sugar: Normal
Prognosis for next medical due on xx/xx/xx: Pass
Etc...something like that.
I am not sure about a "fly in" service though. What would happen if the AME failed the pilot for somehting unexpected? How would you get home.
Would be kind of nice if a few days later you received a report on the various findings, along with past tends, recommendations, general physical state etc...For example:
ECG: Normal
Blood Pressure: Has shown a slight upward trend over the past 5 visits but this can be explained by increasing age and is considered within normal limits. Consideration should be given to increasing exercise though.
Eyesight: Slight decrease in blah blah over the past 5 medicals. This is normal though possibly by the time the person reaches next medical, then it might be close to the limit when eye glasses should be worn.
Cholestrol: Was measured at XX. This is slightly high and the patient should consider a diet to increase Omega three and reduce chips and burgers.
Fasting blood sugar: Normal
Prognosis for next medical due on xx/xx/xx: Pass
Etc...something like that.
I am not sure about a "fly in" service though. What would happen if the AME failed the pilot for somehting unexpected? How would you get home.
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thanks englishal, the trend monitoring seems really sensible, and I guess is a bit like engine oil analysis, with trends being important. Also the follow up report seems a really good idea.
re flying in and failing, ok, maybe that needs more thought, (or I could start a side line in low milage, one lady owner planes, "lost medical forces sale")
Online booking also looks a popular choice these days.
Andrew
re flying in and failing, ok, maybe that needs more thought, (or I could start a side line in low milage, one lady owner planes, "lost medical forces sale")
Online booking also looks a popular choice these days.
Andrew
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At the end of the day I want a "PASS", though the other bits might be nice.
(Fly in still not a bad idea, though I would suggest a recommendation that you fly in with another pilot, just in case).
(Fly in still not a bad idea, though I would suggest a recommendation that you fly in with another pilot, just in case).
Last edited by foxmoth; 17th Mar 2012 at 17:02.
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I'd probably pay extra for some additional checks like cholesterol - I know I can get them from elsewhere but I never get round to it, so a trip to the AME would seem opportune.
I paid £155 in 2010 for my class 2. Seems a fair price to pay for a professional for what probably took an hour, plus I guess he has to pay for the tests etc. Always nice to pay less of course.
No interest in flying in - it would be too unreliable.
A friendly approach to put pilots at ease is important - no point in raising stress levels to get false negatives!
For a booking which is only needed occasionally, I'm not too bothered about online booking. And I use a diary to remind me, although it doesn't do any harm to receive a reminder of course.
I paid £155 in 2010 for my class 2. Seems a fair price to pay for a professional for what probably took an hour, plus I guess he has to pay for the tests etc. Always nice to pay less of course.
No interest in flying in - it would be too unreliable.
A friendly approach to put pilots at ease is important - no point in raising stress levels to get false negatives!
For a booking which is only needed occasionally, I'm not too bothered about online booking. And I use a diary to remind me, although it doesn't do any harm to receive a reminder of course.
I've heard people say they like to have a medical because they value having an MOT every few years, whereas my impression was that the class 2 wasn't too concerned with your general health, and was more concerned with whether you were likely to suffer from faints, fits or funny turns and had halfway decent visual and auditory perception. I have worried that this may sometimes give people a false sense of security.
This seems to be reflected in this thread, and it strikes me that the medical could be combined with a few additional tests in order to give a 'wellness check' of the sort that BUPA do, along with some lifestyle advice etc. I probably wouldn't go for it myself (and still not entirely sure that I believe in them as a concept), but I could see it working as a commercial proposition.
I'm also uncertain about how much information gets passed back to GPs from class-2 medicals. I presume that most AMEs would write to a GP if they discovered evidence of any dread disease, but what about routine blood pressures etc... It seems disjointed to me to be collecting health data under two separate systems. Fine if you consider only that the class 2 is a pass-fail for the purposes of aviation, but potentially messy if it is considered as healthcare.
This seems to be reflected in this thread, and it strikes me that the medical could be combined with a few additional tests in order to give a 'wellness check' of the sort that BUPA do, along with some lifestyle advice etc. I probably wouldn't go for it myself (and still not entirely sure that I believe in them as a concept), but I could see it working as a commercial proposition.
I'm also uncertain about how much information gets passed back to GPs from class-2 medicals. I presume that most AMEs would write to a GP if they discovered evidence of any dread disease, but what about routine blood pressures etc... It seems disjointed to me to be collecting health data under two separate systems. Fine if you consider only that the class 2 is a pass-fail for the purposes of aviation, but potentially messy if it is considered as healthcare.
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My advice would be to keep it simple, have an accessible table of charges on the web site and provide just the necessary tests for the Class of medical required. Personally, I wouldn't be interested in add-ons and extras which seem so attractive to what my GP calls the 'worried well'. In fact I suspect that endless 'extras' may put some people off, a bit like trying to by a toaster in Curry's without the insurance!
If I have a significant health issue I consult my GP, who has the advantage of having my full medical history, then if either of us think it necessary I run any flying related queries past my AME.
As for cost, I have paid the same price for the last 5 years with my AME, £120 for a Class 2 with an ecg. He is a very pleasant, thorough and experienced chap who realises that he isn't there to select astronauts and just gets on with it.
If I have a significant health issue I consult my GP, who has the advantage of having my full medical history, then if either of us think it necessary I run any flying related queries past my AME.
As for cost, I have paid the same price for the last 5 years with my AME, £120 for a Class 2 with an ecg. He is a very pleasant, thorough and experienced chap who realises that he isn't there to select astronauts and just gets on with it.
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In and out, preferably with a pass, in less than 10 minutes. 15 tops. Make it an honest goal, and organize your procedures around it.
The place I go to normally, I plan on a whole afternoon with long waits between the various "stations". So I bring a magazine and usually finish it. But I still have to take a half day off work.
The ability to go evenings or weekends would be great too. In fact, I would probably not mind paying 25 or even 50 euro extra for that privilege.
The other thing that irks me in healthcare land in general is the professionals not talking to each other. I'm a blood donor so my blood, blood pressure, Hb and a few other things are tested each three-four months already. I have also been a stem cell donor which leads to a rather more extensive follow-up check annually, particularly blood work. But my AME has no access to these records so they need to poke me once again, and then I've got to hang around waiting for the lab results.
The place I go to normally, I plan on a whole afternoon with long waits between the various "stations". So I bring a magazine and usually finish it. But I still have to take a half day off work.
The ability to go evenings or weekends would be great too. In fact, I would probably not mind paying 25 or even 50 euro extra for that privilege.
The other thing that irks me in healthcare land in general is the professionals not talking to each other. I'm a blood donor so my blood, blood pressure, Hb and a few other things are tested each three-four months already. I have also been a stem cell donor which leads to a rather more extensive follow-up check annually, particularly blood work. But my AME has no access to these records so they need to poke me once again, and then I've got to hang around waiting for the lab results.
Yes, the lack of communication between various medical checks is infuriating. Apparently it is a pan-European problem. If I want to drive a coach, or a truck, or even a cab, I have to pass a test for professional drivers which is much like the level 2 pilot's medical. Yachtmen have told me similar stories: no way to get one check yearly to serve them all.
OTOH I can't complain about the duration of my yearly check-up: just under an hour, every year. Includes electrocardiogram and all the other humbug, and some nice intellectual casual small talk in between. Write a little email a month or so before expiry, fix a date and time, transfer the pecunials before, and all works out smoothly, year after year.
OTOH I can't complain about the duration of my yearly check-up: just under an hour, every year. Includes electrocardiogram and all the other humbug, and some nice intellectual casual small talk in between. Write a little email a month or so before expiry, fix a date and time, transfer the pecunials before, and all works out smoothly, year after year.
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I drive around an hour to see my AME, who isn't far from where your info puts you. I now have access to an AME within 15 minutes and marginally cheaper but I won't be changing because my original AME knows me and I know him.
The thing I like is his pragmatic attitude to dealing with potential problems, and his open approach. I don't look for additional services, mainly because I don't need them right now.
That said, the idea of the trend analysis sounds like a great idea. One of the other things he did for me before the initial issue of my Class 2 was to do a "pre-medical" while I was waiting for confirmation back from the CAA on another issue. This meant I knew I was unlikely to fail on anything else silly, although clearly was no guarantee.
I would like to be able to get an FAA medical at the same time, although I don't need this at the moment.
I have the choice of flying or driving to see him, although I have always driven for convenience because I've fitted in other tasks en route. I can book myself a slot though online booking, or can text / call for negotiated service if required.
The thing I like is his pragmatic attitude to dealing with potential problems, and his open approach. I don't look for additional services, mainly because I don't need them right now.
That said, the idea of the trend analysis sounds like a great idea. One of the other things he did for me before the initial issue of my Class 2 was to do a "pre-medical" while I was waiting for confirmation back from the CAA on another issue. This meant I knew I was unlikely to fail on anything else silly, although clearly was no guarantee.
I would like to be able to get an FAA medical at the same time, although I don't need this at the moment.
I have the choice of flying or driving to see him, although I have always driven for convenience because I've fitted in other tasks en route. I can book myself a slot though online booking, or can text / call for negotiated service if required.
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Actually someone made a good point above (I think). I get UKOOA offshore medicals, FAA medicals, EASA medicals, every couple of years. It is a PITA to go and visit a different facility each time you want one, so really what I would want is an AME who is multi qualified to do EASA / FAA / UKOOA medicals, and while you are at it Diving medicals, ENG medicals (for maritime personnel) / DVLA etc....
That way you could knock them all out with one examination, and save a lot of time.
Of course you could then charge a fee for each medical, even though it is only one physical examination. In the past when I have had UKOOA /Norwegian / Panamanian medicals all at the same time, it was one exam, 3 fees, which I was quite happy to pay as it only took the same 20 minutes.
That way you could knock them all out with one examination, and save a lot of time.
Of course you could then charge a fee for each medical, even though it is only one physical examination. In the past when I have had UKOOA /Norwegian / Panamanian medicals all at the same time, it was one exam, 3 fees, which I was quite happy to pay as it only took the same 20 minutes.
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My AME has me in and out in 60 minutes including EEG and cups of tea, does all the tests himself and charges £115. He's also a pilot himself so you can have a good yarn with him to pass the time while he's plugging machinery into you.
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For Class 2, the guy I go to in Cumbernauld charges £150 initial, £110 for renewal.
He did all the checks himself (including ECG), put me at ease, was able to arrange an appointment after work and answered all of my questions by email, including providing a guide to the procedures. He discussed the results of each test at the time, and was genuinely interested in my training, including who my instructor was, etc. He himself is a fairly "young" PPL so you can tell he was genuinely interested too!
Details of prices online would be useful, but other than that - just replicate Dr Jamieson...
He did all the checks himself (including ECG), put me at ease, was able to arrange an appointment after work and answered all of my questions by email, including providing a guide to the procedures. He discussed the results of each test at the time, and was genuinely interested in my training, including who my instructor was, etc. He himself is a fairly "young" PPL so you can tell he was genuinely interested too!
Details of prices online would be useful, but other than that - just replicate Dr Jamieson...
