SA Bulldogs?
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SA Bulldogs?
Guys,
not sure if this is the right place to post, but do any of you know of any SA Bulldog RAF TMk1's for sale in the UK?
Be great if you could let me know.
Geoff
not sure if this is the right place to post, but do any of you know of any SA Bulldog RAF TMk1's for sale in the UK?
Be great if you could let me know.
Geoff
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PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions
It's in france but so long as its been maintained on a CofA getting it here shouldn't be an issue.
It's also a little over priced.
justplanetrading had one fairly recently but it's gone.
It's in france but so long as its been maintained on a CofA getting it here shouldn't be an issue.
It's also a little over priced.
justplanetrading had one fairly recently but it's gone.
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On a permit, is it still subject to the Fatigue index and meter? The Foreign Bulldog's were never fitted with Fatigue meters.
I'd say this one is overpriced by £10,000.
I'd say this one is overpriced by £10,000.
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French Bulldog for sale.
I was talking to the owner of that Bulldog a couple of days ago, so if you want to see what the real FI is, he sent me this:
F-AZLZ
Hi,
I do not have the fatigue index (we do not have a limitation in France). I can provide you the record of the fatigue meter since its entry into service in the RAF wich is:
-1.5 =****** 3
-0.5 =*** 366
0.25 =**** 88
1.75 = *7806
2.50 =* 4947
3.50 =***971
5.00 =**** *0
6.00 =***** 0
Regards,
Nicolas.
Your best bet is to join the club and do a fair amount of advert searching as not all of the ones that come up for sale appear in the normal places!
If you can afford the spar mod there are at least 2 for sale in the UK that I know of that need it - one which hasn't even been reregistered onto the G reg as it was sold with 116 FI!
Best of luck,
Chris
F-AZLZ
Hi,
I do not have the fatigue index (we do not have a limitation in France). I can provide you the record of the fatigue meter since its entry into service in the RAF wich is:
-1.5 =****** 3
-0.5 =*** 366
0.25 =**** 88
1.75 = *7806
2.50 =* 4947
3.50 =***971
5.00 =**** *0
6.00 =***** 0
Regards,
Nicolas.
Your best bet is to join the club and do a fair amount of advert searching as not all of the ones that come up for sale appear in the normal places!
If you can afford the spar mod there are at least 2 for sale in the UK that I know of that need it - one which hasn't even been reregistered onto the G reg as it was sold with 116 FI!
Best of luck,
Chris
Last edited by InfraBoy; 14th Mar 2012 at 12:32.
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“Any ADs whilst on a CofA should still apply whilst on a permit”
Not necessarily. When the LAA take on an orphan it carries out an engineering review and often recommends changes to ADs etc which are normally rubber stamped by the CAA. The Austers and Jodels both benefited from this, no idea if the Bulldog will to.
Rod1
Not necessarily. When the LAA take on an orphan it carries out an engineering review and often recommends changes to ADs etc which are normally rubber stamped by the CAA. The Austers and Jodels both benefited from this, no idea if the Bulldog will to.
Rod1
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Two friends of mine are very disappointed to hear the news from DHSL with regard to the Bulldog; both had spent money making their aircraft well equipped, mode S and Garmin 430 etc. If they move to the LAA permit they will lose their night flight, instrument and training capability, if they go TRA route it will cost them more than current CofA,
As I understand it if they choose LAA permit, they will still need to comply with ADs lifed items and their LAA inspector will need to have evidence of maintaining the type.
As I understand it if they choose LAA permit, they will still need to comply with ADs lifed items and their LAA inspector will need to have evidence of maintaining the type.
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Appropriately equipped LAA Permit aircraft will soon be provided with both IFR and Night clearances subject to inspection.
Your friends can't see the forest for the trees, it's a good thing.
Your friends can't see the forest for the trees, it's a good thing.
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“they will still need to comply with ADs lifed items ”
I was under the impression that that decision was still to be made – LAA inspectors have wide latitude to allow use on condition. The fatigue meter is also being reviewed. I am not saying things will change, but it is still possible. There is a lot of scare mongering about as a small number of individuals want to continue to hire their aircraft out and it is in their interests that as many owners as possible stay on cofa to share the TRA cost. As regards fitting Garmin 430’s there are much more capable uncertified kit available for 1/4 of the price which can now be fited.
Rod1
I was under the impression that that decision was still to be made – LAA inspectors have wide latitude to allow use on condition. The fatigue meter is also being reviewed. I am not saying things will change, but it is still possible. There is a lot of scare mongering about as a small number of individuals want to continue to hire their aircraft out and it is in their interests that as many owners as possible stay on cofa to share the TRA cost. As regards fitting Garmin 430’s there are much more capable uncertified kit available for 1/4 of the price which can now be fited.
Rod1
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Can I ask why you are specifically after one of these? There are other aircraft that will do the same job but presume you have a reason you are not looking at them.
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Rod 1
I cant understand how metal fatigue in a C of A aircraft suddenly disapears when given an LAA permit to fly !
As one who holds an LAA inspectors ticket I would not want the sort of "lattitude" you speak of and I am sure that the LAA managment are wise enough not to give it.
As one who holds an LAA inspectors ticket I would not want the sort of "lattitude" you speak of and I am sure that the LAA managment are wise enough not to give it.
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I have no objection to a review of the fatigue issues with the Bulldog with regard to the change of the way the aircraft is used, however there is no getting away from the issue that cracks will start to form around the wing spar bolt holes. So some sort of inspection program is required to control this problem.
The aviation authoritys are often accused of not acting untill there is a death, at the moment a wing has not come off a Bulldog in flight and I for one would like to keep it that way.
In my view the price set by BAe for the fatigue life extention was based on what they could get away with and keep the price just below that of replacement of the RAF trainer fleet but the govenment was not buying this cost. Unfortunatly BAe did not take the hint and it took the cutting up of new Nimrods to get the mesage to BAe that the UK tax payer was no longer willing to put up with BAe's overpricing antics.
The biggest cost of the life extention program is the manufacture of the new wing bolts to make one set it would cost £30K+ but if ALL the buldog owners were to get together and buy a set each the costs would tumble to somethig affordable. The same is true for the jigs & fixings that are required to drill the holes, I would guess that the whole job could be done for £10-15K per aircraft if the owners got together and let an engineeing company set up with a contract to do a life extention program on the whole fleet.
Silvaire 1 I think the cost to owner of a wing failure is death, it is hard to put a price on that in £ or $.
The aviation authoritys are often accused of not acting untill there is a death, at the moment a wing has not come off a Bulldog in flight and I for one would like to keep it that way.
In my view the price set by BAe for the fatigue life extention was based on what they could get away with and keep the price just below that of replacement of the RAF trainer fleet but the govenment was not buying this cost. Unfortunatly BAe did not take the hint and it took the cutting up of new Nimrods to get the mesage to BAe that the UK tax payer was no longer willing to put up with BAe's overpricing antics.
The biggest cost of the life extention program is the manufacture of the new wing bolts to make one set it would cost £30K+ but if ALL the buldog owners were to get together and buy a set each the costs would tumble to somethig affordable. The same is true for the jigs & fixings that are required to drill the holes, I would guess that the whole job could be done for £10-15K per aircraft if the owners got together and let an engineeing company set up with a contract to do a life extention program on the whole fleet.
Silvaire 1 I think the cost to owner of a wing failure is death, it is hard to put a price on that in £ or $.
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The funny thing is that it is only British Bulldogs subject to the fatigue meter life AFAIK. The foreign ones are based on total time...which is why the foreign ones are more desirable I suppose.
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A and C
Do you know for sure whether any of these cracks have been found in the field or was it just in the fatigue rig at SAL/BAEs?
Do you know for sure whether any of these cracks have been found in the field or was it just in the fatigue rig at SAL/BAEs?
I have no objection to a review of the fatigue issues with the Bulldog with regard to the change of the way the aircraft is used, however there is no getting away from the issue that cracks will start to form around the wing spar bolt holes. So some sort of inspection program is required to control this problem.
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I have no objection to a review of the fatigue issues with the Bulldog with regard to the change of the way the aircraft is used, however there is no getting away from the issue that cracks will start to form around the wing spar bolt holes.
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“I cant understand how metal fatigue in a C of A aircraft suddenly disapears when given an LAA permit to fly !”
As has been said above metal fatigue in UK c of a dogs is different from that of all the other arrears.
Rod1
As has been said above metal fatigue in UK c of a dogs is different from that of all the other arrears.
Rod1
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BAe might not be much of a company when it comes to designing aircraft - but they have been superbly successful in extracting money from the MOD across a huge variety of 'issues'.
Things like the in excess of £1M Nimrod safety case - which was not wortht he paper it was written on come to mind.
A set of inspection hatches and routine ndt is going to be far far more effective at spotting fatigue than a calculated fatigue life which features all sorts of global modifiers to try and account for manufacturing tolerances and differences in use.
In my day job we routinely deal with structures which have negative fatigue lives, for steel the research suggests actual fatigue lives typcially vary from the calculated life to in excess of 20 times the calculated life - with failure at calculate life being exceptional.........
So a great deal of potential for a structured review of real life performance and the methodology that BAe used to arrive at their fatigue index.
Things like the in excess of £1M Nimrod safety case - which was not wortht he paper it was written on come to mind.
A set of inspection hatches and routine ndt is going to be far far more effective at spotting fatigue than a calculated fatigue life which features all sorts of global modifiers to try and account for manufacturing tolerances and differences in use.
In my day job we routinely deal with structures which have negative fatigue lives, for steel the research suggests actual fatigue lives typcially vary from the calculated life to in excess of 20 times the calculated life - with failure at calculate life being exceptional.........
So a great deal of potential for a structured review of real life performance and the methodology that BAe used to arrive at their fatigue index.
Red On, Green On
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Fake Sealion I must have added a few digits to the fatigue meter of the French registered Bulldog ex XX531.
I flew it for one hour, Feb 22 1979 whilst at RNEFTS Topcliffe.
I flew it for one hour, Feb 22 1979 whilst at RNEFTS Topcliffe.
Solo GH on 27 June 79
GH with sycamore on 28 June 79
