What about a Hurricane?
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What about a Hurricane?
Following the Supermarine Spitfire / not-a-Spitfire thead got me thinking.
Like, probably most people, I have a handful of "before I die" life ambitions. One or two have already happened, one or two others have been knocked firmly into the long grass - but one is still with me, which is that at some point in my life I'm flying something that I designed, built, and test flew myself.
I've from time to time mucked about with some ideas of a ducted fan high performance microlight loosely modelled on the HP118, also a dull but very practical idea for a long range short field tourer.
Then I thought - what about a replica Hurricane? Modernish technology, but as close as possible to the real thing visually - and one can have a go at some reasonably representative handling as well.
A page of of back of envelope sums in my morning tea break came up with a couple of possibilities, both 1:1 scaled - so same size and shape, not scaled down.
(1) 750kg MTOW, 120hp flat 6, 120kg payload (pilot + fuel), certified as a non-aerobatic light aeroplane, 35 knot stall speed, around 1000fpm climb rate, about 90kn cruise speed. Probably do-able for around £30k for parts.
(2) 2200kg MTOW, 430hp V8, 300kg payload (pilot + fuel), certified as an aerobatic light aircraft, probably +6/-2.5g, 55 knot stall speed, around 1700fpm climb rate, maybe around 160kn, probably do-able for around £50k in parts.
Both would be a big job, but I know I've got the skills to do it - even if it would take years. What's anybody think about either possibility? Is there a market? Would people be interested instead in a manufactured version for maybe three times the price? Should one compromise and try for a 2 seater?
I'm guessing that once the design's been sorted, an aeroplane could be built in a couple of thousand man-hours. It seems like quite a fun project to me, but would be far more gratifying if other people wanted to buy or build them as well.
G
Like, probably most people, I have a handful of "before I die" life ambitions. One or two have already happened, one or two others have been knocked firmly into the long grass - but one is still with me, which is that at some point in my life I'm flying something that I designed, built, and test flew myself.
I've from time to time mucked about with some ideas of a ducted fan high performance microlight loosely modelled on the HP118, also a dull but very practical idea for a long range short field tourer.
Then I thought - what about a replica Hurricane? Modernish technology, but as close as possible to the real thing visually - and one can have a go at some reasonably representative handling as well.
A page of of back of envelope sums in my morning tea break came up with a couple of possibilities, both 1:1 scaled - so same size and shape, not scaled down.
(1) 750kg MTOW, 120hp flat 6, 120kg payload (pilot + fuel), certified as a non-aerobatic light aeroplane, 35 knot stall speed, around 1000fpm climb rate, about 90kn cruise speed. Probably do-able for around £30k for parts.
(2) 2200kg MTOW, 430hp V8, 300kg payload (pilot + fuel), certified as an aerobatic light aircraft, probably +6/-2.5g, 55 knot stall speed, around 1700fpm climb rate, maybe around 160kn, probably do-able for around £50k in parts.
Both would be a big job, but I know I've got the skills to do it - even if it would take years. What's anybody think about either possibility? Is there a market? Would people be interested instead in a manufactured version for maybe three times the price? Should one compromise and try for a 2 seater?
I'm guessing that once the design's been sorted, an aeroplane could be built in a couple of thousand man-hours. It seems like quite a fun project to me, but would be far more gratifying if other people wanted to buy or build them as well.
G
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Something close to option one sort of exists already does it not? The Sindlinger Hurricane plans?
Option 1 though would suffer all the issues which people raise regarding the Mk26.
Option 2 - looks like it would be much more impressive - but of course at a price. Would it sell? Difficult to say, people seem happy-ish to spend £100k on the Mk26 so perhaps it would.
As a one off it would be pretty close to Clive du Cros' replica and that would not be bad!
Option 1 though would suffer all the issues which people raise regarding the Mk26.
Option 2 - looks like it would be much more impressive - but of course at a price. Would it sell? Difficult to say, people seem happy-ish to spend £100k on the Mk26 so perhaps it would.
As a one off it would be pretty close to Clive du Cros' replica and that would not be bad!
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Sorry - typo: HP115.
I'm aware of the Italian lookalike - but (a) it's not British, (b) I didn't design it, and (c) from what I can tell it's basically a light aircraft with fairings to look like a Hurricane, and not even really a replica. I was thinking much more of something structurally (aesthetically!) much more similar.
There have been other Spitfire replicas before of-course, but none were really as impressive as the Mk25/Mk.26, however controversial that is.
G
I'm aware of the Italian lookalike - but (a) it's not British, (b) I didn't design it, and (c) from what I can tell it's basically a light aircraft with fairings to look like a Hurricane, and not even really a replica. I was thinking much more of something structurally (aesthetically!) much more similar.
There have been other Spitfire replicas before of-course, but none were really as impressive as the Mk25/Mk.26, however controversial that is.
G
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Personally I would view a Hurricane replica that cannot do aeros as a bit of a "why bother" project, especially if you want to get close to the original handling - has to be option 2 IMHO.
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It has to be aerobatic – could you do a 90% version at say 1000lb +6 -3g? Use the UL aerobatic engine. I would not worry about the sceptics – most have supported the Mk26 and in any case there are very few legacy Hurricanes about.
Rod1
Rod1
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A 90% scale empty Hurricane AIRFRAME comes out around 530kg / 1170lb non-aerobatic, somewhat heavier aerobatic. Plus the engine. The Jabiru 3300 engine I had in mind is another 80kg/180lb (and one could probably use diaphragm carbs) giving about 120hp.
That light, that big, and aerobatic, I don't think works. You need more structure, and more engine, or something much smaller
G
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A hybred aircraft is certainly do-able, although there are some hellishly fiddly systems issues.
But, it really wouldn't be even a "model" Hurricane by that point methinks!
G
But, it really wouldn't be even a "model" Hurricane by that point methinks!
G
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This looks like a 'sounded good at the time' job.
The material costs are surely the least of your concerns. If I were doing something like this (and wanted a semblance of handling and 'reality' I'd jot down a ball-park figure of £600/700,000 for the first unit, perhaps half that for subsequent units.
Not to mention that from everything I've ever read as you approach 1:1 size (as opposed to 80%/90% etc), the considerations and engineering challenges multiply exponentially.
The material costs are surely the least of your concerns. If I were doing something like this (and wanted a semblance of handling and 'reality' I'd jot down a ball-park figure of £600/700,000 for the first unit, perhaps half that for subsequent units.
Not to mention that from everything I've ever read as you approach 1:1 size (as opposed to 80%/90% etc), the considerations and engineering challenges multiply exponentially.
