Spitfire Mk 26 - real or not real?
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Birth of a Spitfire
Hi Clive!
Long time no hear! Messenger KBO was sold on but should be flying again soon.
If you want to fly any time you are back in Blighty, let me know and I'll meet you at Old Warden. we can get the Storch, Magister etc. out.
Nicky is still wearing and enjoying your old Irvin!
Pity your old Spitfire had its wings sawn off - aaaargh! I wonder if it could be resurrected??
I thoroughly recommend Clives book to all - a great read. I still have my autographed copy.
All the best
Peter
Long time no hear! Messenger KBO was sold on but should be flying again soon.
If you want to fly any time you are back in Blighty, let me know and I'll meet you at Old Warden. we can get the Storch, Magister etc. out.
Nicky is still wearing and enjoying your old Irvin!
Pity your old Spitfire had its wings sawn off - aaaargh! I wonder if it could be resurrected??
I thoroughly recommend Clives book to all - a great read. I still have my autographed copy.
All the best
Peter
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abgd
Totally with you there. The Twister is a great aeroplane that pays homage to the Spit silhouette without pretending to be one - it doesn't claim to be anything other than what it is.
Ref the original thread, I don't think Carolyn's words came across so well, but I tend to agree with the principle concept that a Mk26 isn't a patch on a "real" one, albeit it's a perfectly adequate aeroplane and a totally worthy project in its own right. But that's no reason to slate a team of enthusiasts for whom this is likely to be the closest they'll get to flying a "real" one, and at least they can legally put Spitfire in their log book. How hollow that might appear to others shouldn't influence those involved, since they're not the ones with the logbook entries.
Totally with you there. The Twister is a great aeroplane that pays homage to the Spit silhouette without pretending to be one - it doesn't claim to be anything other than what it is.
Ref the original thread, I don't think Carolyn's words came across so well, but I tend to agree with the principle concept that a Mk26 isn't a patch on a "real" one, albeit it's a perfectly adequate aeroplane and a totally worthy project in its own right. But that's no reason to slate a team of enthusiasts for whom this is likely to be the closest they'll get to flying a "real" one, and at least they can legally put Spitfire in their log book. How hollow that might appear to others shouldn't influence those involved, since they're not the ones with the logbook entries.
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Mk 26 spitfire
Of course the Mk 26 is not a 'real' Spitfire, anyone who pretends it is aligns themselves with the types who pretend that any classic car replica is the real thing. The clue is in the word 'Replica'. That said, I wouldn't criticise anyone for doing whatever they can afford to live their dreams, if it makes them happy, what business of anyone else's is it?
I had the privilege of performing the first flights and LAA acceptance schedules (minimum 5 hours, 15 landings and a 2 hour endurance flight test) on 2 examples of the Mk 26. The first was beautifully put together to a very high standard and I was the build stage inspector. The second was thrown together in an appalling fashion and should never have been signed off during construction.
Some chaps have commented on this that the Mk 26 must be much easier to fly than the real Spit. This is not necessarily the case, just because an aircraft is light and low-powered it does not automatically follow that it will be easier to fly than something which is heavy and high powered, in fact the opposite is often the case.
I was extremely fortunate to have the opportunity to handle the controls of Carolyn Grace's Spit, on board with her husband, Nick, when I was a lowly PPL with barely 400 hrs on Ercoups, 150s, 172s, 182s, Beagle Pup, Turbulent, DR1050, & Super Airtourer and I found it absolutely delightful with its responsiveness, power, control harmonisation and momentum.
More than 20 years later, having soloed some 105 different types of piston singles and twins, most under flight test conditions, I found my first Mk 26 a bit of a challenge, at least from hard, but not very smooth, runways, although it became a doddle from smooth grass. Both the Mk 26s I flew had the Jabiru flat 8 engine and the power from this unit is plenty for this very light and skittish aeroplane, its nominal 180 HP through the MT 3 bladed CS prop certainly giving considerably more thrust than you would feel from a 180 HP Lycoming with a Hartzell.
The Mk 26 is a fast aircraft for its size and conventional shape and construction method and as such, great care and a higher than usual homebuilder skill is required to complete one as a good example. Ovalling rivet holes to make them fit and filling skin fit gaps and profile faults with polyester is simply not acceptable. Properly built, they are a delight, once in the air and looking out over the long nose and at the elliptical wing planform, well a man is allowed to dream isn't he?..........
If they were strong enough and approved for aeros, I believe they would be more fun than an S1S!
Mrs Grace's response to the LAA mag piece was not, I believe, intended to denigrate the efforts of the owners and pilots of these machines, but simply airing her irritation of all the hype originating from the kit manufacturer and picked up by the owners calling it a Supermarine and suggesting that it could be compared to the original.
I had the privilege of performing the first flights and LAA acceptance schedules (minimum 5 hours, 15 landings and a 2 hour endurance flight test) on 2 examples of the Mk 26. The first was beautifully put together to a very high standard and I was the build stage inspector. The second was thrown together in an appalling fashion and should never have been signed off during construction.
Some chaps have commented on this that the Mk 26 must be much easier to fly than the real Spit. This is not necessarily the case, just because an aircraft is light and low-powered it does not automatically follow that it will be easier to fly than something which is heavy and high powered, in fact the opposite is often the case.
I was extremely fortunate to have the opportunity to handle the controls of Carolyn Grace's Spit, on board with her husband, Nick, when I was a lowly PPL with barely 400 hrs on Ercoups, 150s, 172s, 182s, Beagle Pup, Turbulent, DR1050, & Super Airtourer and I found it absolutely delightful with its responsiveness, power, control harmonisation and momentum.
More than 20 years later, having soloed some 105 different types of piston singles and twins, most under flight test conditions, I found my first Mk 26 a bit of a challenge, at least from hard, but not very smooth, runways, although it became a doddle from smooth grass. Both the Mk 26s I flew had the Jabiru flat 8 engine and the power from this unit is plenty for this very light and skittish aeroplane, its nominal 180 HP through the MT 3 bladed CS prop certainly giving considerably more thrust than you would feel from a 180 HP Lycoming with a Hartzell.
The Mk 26 is a fast aircraft for its size and conventional shape and construction method and as such, great care and a higher than usual homebuilder skill is required to complete one as a good example. Ovalling rivet holes to make them fit and filling skin fit gaps and profile faults with polyester is simply not acceptable. Properly built, they are a delight, once in the air and looking out over the long nose and at the elliptical wing planform, well a man is allowed to dream isn't he?..........
If they were strong enough and approved for aeros, I believe they would be more fun than an S1S!
Mrs Grace's response to the LAA mag piece was not, I believe, intended to denigrate the efforts of the owners and pilots of these machines, but simply airing her irritation of all the hype originating from the kit manufacturer and picked up by the owners calling it a Supermarine and suggesting that it could be compared to the original.
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Hello all my name is Philip , I fly the mk26b named High Lady she is the blue one that is owned by super marine aircraft. We took her to sun n fun this year and I flew it for a couple magazine and also in the show, there were a couple fellas that came up to the plane during the week that flew spits during the end and after ww2. They couldn't tell the difference , except when they sat in it and they said it was bigger than the orig inside, as far as commanding attention she is no slouch either every time I took off the whole show would stop and watch , she flies great no bad habits , so until some of the people on here actually fly the plane I think they shouldn't have such a ****ty attitude about it.just my little take
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Unimo55 raises a point I havn't seen elsewhere. Is this replica strong enough to throw around properly? In WWII, Spitfires were flown by young lads trained in Tiger Moths, then possibly a few hours in a more demanding type, and after a very short apprenticship were dogfighting the Nazi intruders. The original Spitfires could not be that difficult to handle for the original few, who were probably considerably younger than those who will be able to afford and fly the replicas.
I agree, yes there are aerobatics that need more than +6/-3, but most of manage to enjoy ourselves quite enough within those numbers. Personally I start to feel distinctly uncomfortable beyond that and leave it to the sort of hooligans who enjoy that stuff.
G
G
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Mks of Spitfire
Mk24 last genuine Spitfire. Mk25 75 percent replica, Mk26 80 percent replica, Mk26b 90 percent replica.
Mk26b with 430hp LS2 naturally aspirated Chev V8 first flew late 2008.
3500 ft per minute climb off the deck. 240 knots/280mph/440kmh
650kgs empty weight.
Next... Mk2b with a supercharged LS series V8 with approx 600 HP???????
As with the V6 naturally aspirated and then supercharged V6
You do the math!!!!!
Affordable for the 'average' bloke, easy to maintain.
Grace Spitfire hugely expensive to run and maintain,insure and will probably become increasingly more difficult to keep in the air as time passes and beuracracy and red tape becomes insurmountable.
See the late Alex Henshaws comment on the Supermarine website......
IMHO I think Mike should be commended for what he has achieved...the only person who has successfully manufactured an all metal Spitfire whether it be a replica or not since 1948.
The passion and determination this man has put into building this wonderful replica is beyond belief and anyone who thinks this Spitfire is a pretender should very quickly go and find an owner who is willing to take them for a flight and experience one of these machines first hand.
Carolyn Grace should do exactly that as well!!!
Cheers
Mk26b with 430hp LS2 naturally aspirated Chev V8 first flew late 2008.
3500 ft per minute climb off the deck. 240 knots/280mph/440kmh
650kgs empty weight.
Next... Mk2b with a supercharged LS series V8 with approx 600 HP???????
As with the V6 naturally aspirated and then supercharged V6
You do the math!!!!!
Affordable for the 'average' bloke, easy to maintain.
Grace Spitfire hugely expensive to run and maintain,insure and will probably become increasingly more difficult to keep in the air as time passes and beuracracy and red tape becomes insurmountable.
See the late Alex Henshaws comment on the Supermarine website......
IMHO I think Mike should be commended for what he has achieved...the only person who has successfully manufactured an all metal Spitfire whether it be a replica or not since 1948.
The passion and determination this man has put into building this wonderful replica is beyond belief and anyone who thinks this Spitfire is a pretender should very quickly go and find an owner who is willing to take them for a flight and experience one of these machines first hand.
Carolyn Grace should do exactly that as well!!!
Cheers
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I wonder what Carolyn would think of the Thunder Mustang then...
I know Carolyn and had a hand in the initial training of her son, she is generally very nice, but I'm afraid in this letter she's not come across very well at all...
I know Carolyn and had a hand in the initial training of her son, she is generally very nice, but I'm afraid in this letter she's not come across very well at all...
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Some people get kinda crazy on this stuff, I have over 13000 hr and I have flown many planes , I race at Reno , I'm not fluffin my own pillow but this airplane is really fun to fly , no bad habits . When she flies people don't go oh it's a replica they see and hear a spitfire, if you go to aafo.com you can see pics
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I am also a member of the Enstone groups and a keen PPL, I saw this as an opportunity to fly an Icon, even if not full size. I have seen the first taking shape, but still 6 months form flying status. The other two seem to lack members and enthusiam to get the projects started.
With the support shown on the forum, are there none to join and give impetus to geting these legends airbourne
With the support shown on the forum, are there none to join and give impetus to geting these legends airbourne
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The B Word said:
But it isn't a Bonnie.
This is:
Mine's a real Spitfire (old, full of chracter). The modern copy of the Bonnie from Hinckley is a modern characterless bike. A Mk26!
For comfortable fast long distance I have a modern bike as well (Japanese - little character but does the job well). The Bonnie is for characterful bimbles.
Mine was built in Hinckley and looks like a Bonnie, sounds like a Bonnie (with the aftermarket Triumph pipes) and has better performance than an old Bonnie.
This is:
Mine's a real Spitfire (old, full of chracter). The modern copy of the Bonnie from Hinckley is a modern characterless bike. A Mk26!
For comfortable fast long distance I have a modern bike as well (Japanese - little character but does the job well). The Bonnie is for characterful bimbles.
Last edited by Shaggy Sheep Driver; 31st Jul 2012 at 14:51.
In WWII, Spitfires were flown by young lads trained in Tiger Moths, then possibly a few hours in a more demanding type, and after a very short apprenticship were dogfighting the Nazi intruders.
The best book by a WWII pilot that I have read.
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Shaggy Sheep Driver
I certainly have no wish to offend you and I hope none is taken from my next few lines but.
The bike you have posted the picture of is indeed a fine looking machine. However for someone my age it isn't quite
a proper "Bonnie" as it has a front disc brake but much more importantly the rear brake pedal and therefore the gear pedal are now on
the wrong side. The original bikes were made properly with the gear pedal on the right hand side with the rear brake pedal
on the left. ALL the fault of the Americans who insisted. I disliked riding machines with that configuration as it felt
out of balance. I always considered braking with right hand - left foot was much more natural, rather like when walking
your left arm moved forward when your right leg did the same.
However I am still a tad jealous that you have one as SWMBO refuses to allow me to have a motorcycle.
Please ride with care, there are too many idiots around who say after an accident that "I didn't see the motorcycle"
mainly because they are too stupid to be driving IMHO
The bike you have posted the picture of is indeed a fine looking machine. However for someone my age it isn't quite
a proper "Bonnie" as it has a front disc brake but much more importantly the rear brake pedal and therefore the gear pedal are now on
the wrong side. The original bikes were made properly with the gear pedal on the right hand side with the rear brake pedal
on the left. ALL the fault of the Americans who insisted. I disliked riding machines with that configuration as it felt
out of balance. I always considered braking with right hand - left foot was much more natural, rather like when walking
your left arm moved forward when your right leg did the same.
However I am still a tad jealous that you have one as SWMBO refuses to allow me to have a motorcycle.
Please ride with care, there are too many idiots around who say after an accident that "I didn't see the motorcycle"
mainly because they are too stupid to be driving IMHO
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There are plenty of idiot motorcyclists around who seem to think that they are invincible.
A motorcycle is a great tool for zipping in and out of traffic, but very few motorcyclists understand how to do it with the car driver and therefore their own safety in mind.
I do consider myself reasonably well qualified to talk on behalf of both camps but I sense a soap-box moment coming on and am off to take my medication.......
A motorcycle is a great tool for zipping in and out of traffic, but very few motorcyclists understand how to do it with the car driver and therefore their own safety in mind.
I do consider myself reasonably well qualified to talk on behalf of both camps but I sense a soap-box moment coming on and am off to take my medication.......
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More people are killed and injured in bike crashes that involve no other vehicle than those that involve SMIDSY moments in the UK.
What that has to do with a Mk26 Spitfire replica I have no idea though!
What that has to do with a Mk26 Spitfire replica I have no idea though!
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Mods - please close this thread!!
It is now nothing more than a Mk26 fanclub.
It started as - Spitfire Mk26- real or not? It has been established that it is not, never will be.
Good enough (for some) in it's own right, but not a "real" Spitfire.
End of story. Move along now.
It is now nothing more than a Mk26 fanclub.
It started as - Spitfire Mk26- real or not? It has been established that it is not, never will be.
Good enough (for some) in it's own right, but not a "real" Spitfire.
End of story. Move along now.