Winter Flying
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's curious how the FAA changed its advice over the years. They used to say polished frost (which is smooth) is OK to depart with, but now they want it all removed.
I can see why they used to allow a departure with frost if polished to a smooth surface - the average spamcan aerofoil is not going to be that critical if the layer is reasonably even. But personally I would remove it all. A bit of TKS fluid does it OK. I bet polishing the stuff takes just as much elbow grease.
I can see why they used to allow a departure with frost if polished to a smooth surface - the average spamcan aerofoil is not going to be that critical if the layer is reasonably even. But personally I would remove it all. A bit of TKS fluid does it OK. I bet polishing the stuff takes just as much elbow grease.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peterh337;
Now you are entering into an area of serious arse covering. With the ambulance chasing lawyers there are in the US the FAA had to come up with clear instructions rather than grey areas, and rightly or wrongly they went for the most restrictive they could so that if a pilot went flying with a bit of ice it was his fault and the FAA could say "told you so" in court, EASA is going exactly the same way and I can see things getting a lot worse.
TKS is a good fluid for de-icing, Ive just never found a really good TKS system on and aircraft. Hot intakes and leading edges for me every time!
Now you are entering into an area of serious arse covering. With the ambulance chasing lawyers there are in the US the FAA had to come up with clear instructions rather than grey areas, and rightly or wrongly they went for the most restrictive they could so that if a pilot went flying with a bit of ice it was his fault and the FAA could say "told you so" in court, EASA is going exactly the same way and I can see things getting a lot worse.
TKS is a good fluid for de-icing, Ive just never found a really good TKS system on and aircraft. Hot intakes and leading edges for me every time!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 73
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A bit off topic for the initial question, but I certainly remember this - quite some years ago now, I trained to do a PPL/IR at Humberside on a Grumman Cougar, equipped with a TKS anti-ice and de-ice system. Lots of training, take off, ask "any ice" every 500' up in the climb and every time the answer was "no-ice"
Then came the day of the IR test, with CAA examiner on board , taxied out, took off, shutters closed and climbing away on instruments - "any ice" I said - back came the answer - "affirm - ice building" - "bl**dy h*ll" - I looked out of the side widow and sure enough there was a lovely layer of ice all along the leading edge - switch on the TKS to de-ice and the next thing was ice coming off the props hitting the fuselage - I certainly learned from that just how quickly ice can build up and I'd never want to fly in any aircraft that wasn't equipped to deal with it.....
But to the OP - fly in winter, it's great, but look for those cold clear days
btw - I passed the IR test!!
Then came the day of the IR test, with CAA examiner on board , taxied out, took off, shutters closed and climbing away on instruments - "any ice" I said - back came the answer - "affirm - ice building" - "bl**dy h*ll" - I looked out of the side widow and sure enough there was a lovely layer of ice all along the leading edge - switch on the TKS to de-ice and the next thing was ice coming off the props hitting the fuselage - I certainly learned from that just how quickly ice can build up and I'd never want to fly in any aircraft that wasn't equipped to deal with it.....
But to the OP - fly in winter, it's great, but look for those cold clear days
btw - I passed the IR test!!
Just watch the weather. 25 years winter VFR flying from Inverness, and I've never encountered airframe icing. One risk not mentioned so far is 8/8 overcast, with a high cloudbase, and snow starting to fall from it. I've taken action to avoid this a few times. I have never flown into a snowshower. Visibility will be too poor. I would not attempt to take off with visible ice.
P.S. Is carb icing more likely on Konsin treated runways, and at temperatures which would seem too low? I'd have thought the runway mixture vapour pressure would not do this, but the O200 seems to react otherwise.
P.S. Is carb icing more likely on Konsin treated runways, and at temperatures which would seem too low? I'd have thought the runway mixture vapour pressure would not do this, but the O200 seems to react otherwise.
Last edited by Maoraigh1; 6th Dec 2011 at 21:27. Reason: Spelling
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ive just never found a really good TKS system on and aircraft. Hot intakes and leading edges for me every time!
The full TKS system, now costing ~£30k, is reported as similarly effective, and effective way beyond any certification limits, but maybe it is airframe dependent. It also avoids bridging, runback ice freezing, and punctured boots
It also costs a packet, getting through some £200 in an hour, potentially. It's not an enroute solution, for that reason.bartonflyer - didn't the examiner warn you well in advance of entering IMC conditions, so you had time to turn on the TKS? One "cannot" just turn it on when there is already a buildup, supposedly (though I gather that usually does work). I have my JAA IR test sometime soon and will need to sort this out, otherwise I will have to fly the entire test with the prop TKS running on full bore.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 73
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peter337 - no, it was unexpected - cloudbase around 450' as I recall, not particularly cold - we went up, straight into cloud and very shortly afterwards there was the ice!! Had the temperature on the ground been lower I would have set it to "anti-ice".
Mind you, this was some years ago now - memory may be playing tricks
Mind you, this was some years ago now - memory may be playing tricks
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most dangerous part of flying is still going to be driving to the airport, particularly with ice and snow on uncleared roads. Plan extra time to complete this journey, and don't get caught out. Particularly since a lot of GA airfields are in the middle of nowhere and quite difficult to get to by road. I've lost count of the number of times I've gone skidding past the entry gate, no matter how slowly I'm going.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taxi slow especially on grass. I have seem some magnificent looking holes in the ground where pilots taxi fast in winter and have to brake for a corner and they simply can't slow down, especially down hill.
I'd strongly suggest investing in some carbon monoxide detectors if you plan to use the cabin heat. Might just save your life.
I also find priming before the walk around to be helpful on the old 152s.
I'd strongly suggest investing in some carbon monoxide detectors if you plan to use the cabin heat. Might just save your life.
I also find priming before the walk around to be helpful on the old 152s.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas and UK
Age: 66
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Peterh337
Why the apparent change of user name? you post earlier under IO540, with advice about safety and flying with ice/frost on the plane.
The posts under this user name seem same style of information
If you had lost the password I'm sure they would have given you another one!!
Why the apparent change of user name? you post earlier under IO540, with advice about safety and flying with ice/frost on the plane.
The posts under this user name seem same style of information
If you had lost the password I'm sure they would have given you another one!!
