Aircraft recovery the Australian way.
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Aircraft recovery the Australian way.
Damn unfortunate incident...
Learn the difference between Australia and New Zealand.
But other than that, yes, thats a good, quick, and easy way to recover the aircraft
Love the comment at the end "it looks all right..."
But other than that, yes, thats a good, quick, and easy way to recover the aircraft
Love the comment at the end "it looks all right..."
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if that looks alright I would hate to see a 
one
I was informed by a kiwi that they only shag female sheep, the Australians aren't fussy.
one
Learn the difference between Australia and New Zealand.
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That will teach him to look after his squat switches.
What was he doing operating anything during takeoff? He should have just been sitting there, full power, waiting to reach Vr.
What was he doing operating anything during takeoff? He should have just been sitting there, full power, waiting to reach Vr.
It did not take long for posters, including one prolific "expert" on all things GA, to have jumped right on this thread implying pilot error.If said posters had made any effort to educate themselves on the design of the landing gear fitted to 1960's vintage Mooneys they would have learned that the aircraft has a manually actuated landing gear operated by a big bar between the seats. There is no anti-retraction squat switch, just a latch on the handle. If you watch the video it looks like the nose gear bounces back and forth just before everything folds up. If the system is not properly adjusted or the actuating rod ends are worn the gear can unfortunately collapse on its own. This would be more likely on an un paved runway because the aircraft will bounce up and down loading and unloading the gear lock.
The bottom line:
1) Nobody was hurt
2) A bunch of sensible people fixed a simple problem, how to raise the aircraft high enough to drop the gear, in a simple and effective way. It is good to see that the people in the NZ GA scene are still able to use common sense, unlike
some other grossly over regulated juristictions.
3) As an aircraft owner it is important to know the weak/troublesome/problematic areas of your aircraft and direct maintenance actions accordingly.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 20th Nov 2011 at 16:39.
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The gear appears to have collapsed quite evenly. It doesn't look like the nose went first.
Squat switches have a limitation in that if you are departing in a bouncy manner, and operated the retraction mechanism, all it takes is a bump which unloads the landing gear suspension, and the gear will retract.
And as BPF points out, some planes have no squat switches. I did wonder if perhaps that was the case here.
But whichever way, it is a totally crap design if this can happen so easily. £30k? Probably a good chunk of what the whole plane is worth.
Your contributions are always welcome, BPF 
Squat switches have a limitation in that if you are departing in a bouncy manner, and operated the retraction mechanism, all it takes is a bump which unloads the landing gear suspension, and the gear will retract.
And as BPF points out, some planes have no squat switches. I did wonder if perhaps that was the case here.
But whichever way, it is a totally crap design if this can happen so easily. £30k? Probably a good chunk of what the whole plane is worth.
including one prolific "expert" on all things GA
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The gear appears to have collapsed quite evenly. It doesn't look like the nose went first.
IO540, several people have pointed out various errors of yours in these forums, yet on you go... I wonder if your behaviour in the cockpit reflects a similar ill-informed arrogance?
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Initial post to sniping in 7 replies. A record?
I think they called the gear retraction handles on the Mooney the "Johnson-bar" for reasons unknown. Maybe a chap named Johnson designed it or something.
My old crate has a gear retraction that works on the ground, without the hydraulic pump active (design fail no 1). And there are no squat switches. What's worse, the retraction handle is just beside the flap handle and very close to your knee as you snake your way into the seat. So if your knee doesn't do it, you mistaking it for the flap will. Many old Commanders have been dropped on their bellies this way. Thankfully the handle is protected by a locking switch, but one has to be religious about its use. I used to unlock before I lined up on the runway, but now, on the suggestion from an experienced instructor, I'll wait all the way until retraction. Same on approach, gear out, then lock. Might make an emergency retraction or go around take a second longer, but the benefits outweigh the risk of dropping her.
However I might as well drive a stake through the heart of this thread with a totally irrelevant thread hyjack.
The gear handle on the Mooney is a two foot long stout metal bar which lies flat between the two front seats when the gear is retracted and stands straight up under the center of the instrument panel when moved to the extended position.
"Johnson" in this case alludes to its American usage as slang for the male appendage.
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I wonder if your behaviour in the cockpit reflects a similar ill-informed arrogance?
This was not a retraction, but a downlock failure
Many thanks old chap
10540
Airplane crash altiport de Megève france altiport france landing without landing gear (HD) - YouTube
Your French is quite good
Airplane crash altiport de Megève france altiport france landing without landing gear (HD) - YouTube
Your French is quite good
I think the picture looks wrong because of the 9 degree up-slope on the runway. The horn, however, does seem to be glaringly obvious...how on earth could you miss that...
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That TB20 gear up landing has been around the net for a little while.
I am not sure if it is relevant to the Mooney video, because a TB20 has squat switches (they cost £1200 each ). It also has two interlocks, either of which gives a warning horn. One is gear up but landing flap selected, and the other is gear up and throttle below a certain position.
Some pilots who are used to big runways land the TB20/21 with takeoff flap and that disables the first gear warning, and then you are left with only one gear warning which is the throttle lever position and that one is fairly easily defeated by landing into a strong headwind.
There is no reason, ever, to land a TB20 with just the takeoff flap.
As a result of the two interlocks, plus the usually fairly obvious difficulty of getting the thing to descend fast enough with the gear up, landing gear up is very difficult in the TB20.
To me, that video is a bit of a mystery, unless the pilot(s) was/were very new on the type and perhaps had no training on the system, which is possible.
I am not sure if it is relevant to the Mooney video, because a TB20 has squat switches (they cost £1200 each
). It also has two interlocks, either of which gives a warning horn. One is gear up but landing flap selected, and the other is gear up and throttle below a certain position.Some pilots who are used to big runways land the TB20/21 with takeoff flap and that disables the first gear warning, and then you are left with only one gear warning which is the throttle lever position and that one is fairly easily defeated by landing into a strong headwind.
There is no reason, ever, to land a TB20 with just the takeoff flap.
As a result of the two interlocks, plus the usually fairly obvious difficulty of getting the thing to descend fast enough with the gear up, landing gear up is very difficult in the TB20.
To me, that video is a bit of a mystery, unless the pilot(s) was/were very new on the type and perhaps had no training on the system, which is possible.
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Even with the slope it looks wrong to me and the power setting is out as well. And there was a red flashing light reflection in the canopy window as well.
And if you watch the recovery with the digger that is pretty special as well with no clue how not to cause even more damage. The Kiwi's definately had the right way of dealing with it.
And if you watch the recovery with the digger that is pretty special as well with no clue how not to cause even more damage. The Kiwi's definately had the right way of dealing with it.
Last edited by mad_jock; 20th Nov 2011 at 21:50.
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various errors of yours in these forums
I wonder if your behaviour in the cockpit reflects a similar ill-informed arrogance?
I am not an expert on Mooney manual undercarriage, I have only flown the electric ones (and had to use manual anyway!). However, I would point out that various mechanical linkage geometry oddities could result in landing gear retracting differently when being pushed up by earth, compared with being pulled up by pilot.
I'm not rushing to any judgement on this one!
fwiw I think "Johnson bar" is American for what Brits call just a lever. For example the huge reversing lever on steam locomotives was called a Johnson bar. Nothing vulgar about it, rather "Johnson" for the male appendage is a reference to a Johnson bar. Who Johnson was and why he got a bar named after him, I have no idea.
I did once visit a company whose CEO was a grade 1 a$$hole, whose name happened to be Johnson, and who had a big cardboard arrow hanging from the ceiling pointing into his office marked "the big Johnson". That removed all vestige of our already seriously diminished desire to work with with said company.
(I have nothing to say about Mooney gear - the only Mooney I've flown had electric gear with a dinky little wheel-shaped switch).
n5296s
I did once visit a company whose CEO was a grade 1 a$$hole, whose name happened to be Johnson, and who had a big cardboard arrow hanging from the ceiling pointing into his office marked "the big Johnson". That removed all vestige of our already seriously diminished desire to work with with said company.
(I have nothing to say about Mooney gear - the only Mooney I've flown had electric gear with a dinky little wheel-shaped switch).
n5296s
