Remembrance Service
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Job Centre
Remembrance Service
At 1055 today the reading of the list of the fallen in our short village Remembrance Service was drowned by a helicopter passing W - E at ~ 3000ft, 10 miles N of EGHO.
Any thoughts?
SD
Any thoughts?
SD
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Oop North, UK
Unfortunate, but what was he supposed to do - land? If you had said he was at 500' then I think there would be a case, but at 3,000' I would think not unreasonable.
Also - I am pretty sure EGHO is Thruxton, but not 100% and a lot of people will not know this, so why not put where it is in English?
Also - I am pretty sure EGHO is Thruxton, but not 100% and a lot of people will not know this, so why not put where it is in English?
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From: UK
I was at Booker today - every aircraft was landed by 1058 with the engines off, starting again about 1105.
Quiet, solemn, and appropriate. I was impressed.
Re: the Helicopter. Sadly no particular reason he could have known you were doing that, and it wasn't on the 2 minutes silence either. Sorry to say it, but I can't help regard it as just bad luck. And from 3,000ft the noise should have been pretty minimal.
G
Quiet, solemn, and appropriate. I was impressed.
Re: the Helicopter. Sadly no particular reason he could have known you were doing that, and it wasn't on the 2 minutes silence either. Sorry to say it, but I can't help regard it as just bad luck. And from 3,000ft the noise should have been pretty minimal.
G
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From: Job Centre
Not trying to complain, just trying to explore attitudes.
Interesting to hear Ghengis' experience. I wonder if that was organised, or a spontaneous gesture?
BTW It was a red JetRanger (or similar) so not either of our local air ambulances, and no I have no interest in who it was.
Judging by the direction, it was probably not a local flight.
Interesting to hear Ghengis' experience. I wonder if that was organised, or a spontaneous gesture?
BTW It was a red JetRanger (or similar) so not either of our local air ambulances, and no I have no interest in who it was.
Judging by the direction, it was probably not a local flight.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
What's the point of the post? Do you expect the world to stop for the two minute silence? Being ex Military myself I am a huge supporter of showing the great respect that our fallen deserve and showing support for those putting there life on the line in conflict. But this is a modern world and it keeps on turning.
I was on the side of a mountain green laning yesterday not able to stop but I still observed the silence as I drove as did the rest of the convoy.
Whois to say the pilot of the helicopter was not having his own time of reflection and respect?
I was on the side of a mountain green laning yesterday not able to stop but I still observed the silence as I drove as did the rest of the convoy.
Whois to say the pilot of the helicopter was not having his own time of reflection and respect?
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
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From: Witnesham, Suffolk
I took the service at the local war memorial yesterday, and cars carried right on passing throughout the event. I just bellowed a bit louder.
I'm not sure what else they could have done, although one in a side road did stop (engine running) until we'd finished.
I'm not sure what else they could have done, although one in a side road did stop (engine running) until we'd finished.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
In the Netherlands we have our annual remembrance moment on May 4th, at 20.00.
By NOTAM, the whole FIR below some sort of limit (I think FL65) is effectively closed from 19.58 to 20.10 or so, with all departures and arrivals timed so that they are either on the ground, or above that level during that period.
Furthermore, around the major remembrance sites there are RA(T)s in place for a much longer duration.
By NOTAM, the whole FIR below some sort of limit (I think FL65) is effectively closed from 19.58 to 20.10 or so, with all departures and arrivals timed so that they are either on the ground, or above that level during that period.
Furthermore, around the major remembrance sites there are RA(T)s in place for a much longer duration.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: UK
It has been airfield management policy for as long as I can remember at Wycombe Air Park (Booker) - on both Armistice Day (11 November) and on Remembrance Day (13 November).
No engines running on the airfield and no circuit flying between 1058hrs and 1102hrs.
No engines running on the airfield and no circuit flying between 1058hrs and 1102hrs.
Last edited by smarthawke; 14th November 2011 at 21:59.
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From: Job Centre
Bose
I'm a very amateur aviator, but very aware of the way thoughts and feelings drift can through the mind while at X thousand feet - St Ex's books bring this out very well. So I easily accept your view. But it's not just about the individual, it's about everyone within earshot, and that can mean that one person affects hundreds.
JAFO
Expand? Well I like to fly. And I want GA to flourish.
I ask myself 'how does the rest of the community view GA?'
11.11 is one possibly sensitive occasion when a single aviator can affect the attitude of many people.
I suppose my point is 'does GA care?'
The responses above show an expected spread of views, that I find helpful.
I'm a very amateur aviator, but very aware of the way thoughts and feelings drift can through the mind while at X thousand feet - St Ex's books bring this out very well. So I easily accept your view. But it's not just about the individual, it's about everyone within earshot, and that can mean that one person affects hundreds.
JAFO
Expand? Well I like to fly. And I want GA to flourish.
I ask myself 'how does the rest of the community view GA?'
- Is it a great past-time and a benefit to the UK economy?
- Do most people not give a stuff?
- Or is it a noisy nuisance, that pollutes the environment; a pecadillo of rich yobs who don't give a monkey's about anyone else?
11.11 is one possibly sensitive occasion when a single aviator can affect the attitude of many people.
I suppose my point is 'does GA care?'
The responses above show an expected spread of views, that I find helpful.
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From: UK
I should say, I think it's an entirely appropriate policy - I just don't know how it's spread out.
And has the pillock who started his (Extra 300?) engine at 1059 and sat with it running at moderate revs next to ATS on Sunday been banned from the airfield by Cap'n Orchard yet?
G
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: flatlands
Where I fly, there is a village to the North and to the South of the airfield.
Circuit direction was varied to avoid directing any engine noise toward either village when their respective services were taking place.
Fortunately the services were 30 mins apart so this was possible - just.
This could only be done because the village newsletter is delivered to the airfield and they let us know what was going on -and when.
I don't suppose that locals were aware of the change in circuit direction to minimise any noise.
I think that most people will accommodate and be respectful - if they know that something is going on.
It is not necessarily a lack of respect that is being demonstrated here so much as a lack of knowledge.
Circuit direction was varied to avoid directing any engine noise toward either village when their respective services were taking place.
Fortunately the services were 30 mins apart so this was possible - just.
This could only be done because the village newsletter is delivered to the airfield and they let us know what was going on -and when.
I don't suppose that locals were aware of the change in circuit direction to minimise any noise.
I think that most people will accommodate and be respectful - if they know that something is going on.
It is not necessarily a lack of respect that is being demonstrated here so much as a lack of knowledge.
Joined: Sep 2011
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From: Los Angeles
I think that most people will accommodate and be respectful - if they know that something is going on.
It is not necessarily a lack of respect that is being demonstrated here so much as a lack of knowledge.
It is not necessarily a lack of respect that is being demonstrated here so much as a lack of knowledge.
You have to hope that folk would be mindful of that and take it into account.
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: West Sussex, England
My experience says more helicopter pilots/owners think they can fly low and bust anyone's airspace at will than most others. Too many appear to possess have inflated egos and no airmanship.
No wonder one such empty headed individual was oblivious of the sensibilities of 11 a.m on Remembrance Sunday.
mike hallam
No wonder one such empty headed individual was oblivious of the sensibilities of 11 a.m on Remembrance Sunday.
mike hallam
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: England
Perhaps we should also remember that millions died so that people could have the freedom to do what they choose within reason. Not everyone wishes to remember the war dead or even buy a poppy so lets celebrate that freedom too. Please also consider that some people just plain forget. Lack of understanding of other people and trying to force your will upon them has a lot to do with causing wars-think about it!
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Perhaps we should also remember that millions died so that people could have the freedom to do what they choose within reason. Not everyone wishes to remember the war dead or even buy a poppy so lets celebrate that freedom too. Please also consider that some people just plain forget. Lack of understanding of other people and trying to force your will upon them has a lot to do with causing wars-think about it!
Edit: I might add that I do respect the right of others to observe the two minutes and I wouldn't have flown at that time unless it was neccessary.
Last edited by thing; 17th November 2011 at 09:47.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: UK
The Wycombe Air Park period of silence was not NOTAM'd but promulgated by ATC via letters to all airfield based operators and to private owners, visitors etc by letters on the airfield information board in the airfield reception area (alongside NOTAMs, met, airfield info etc).
A note was also attached to the top of the booking in/out form. In addidtion, ATC were warning aircraft that were already up and running.
Unfortunately, ATC can't stop people who don't/can't read and start their engines after the silence period has begun. The aircraft in question would probably have been out of sight down that cul de sac...
A note was also attached to the top of the booking in/out form. In addidtion, ATC were warning aircraft that were already up and running.
Unfortunately, ATC can't stop people who don't/can't read and start their engines after the silence period has begun. The aircraft in question would probably have been out of sight down that cul de sac...
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Surrey, UK ;
I flew from Redhill last Saturday and there was a notice from the airfield operator which said no take offs, landings, aircraft in the circuit or ground running from about 10.50 to 11.10 on Sunday 13th. Seems a pretty standard practice.