PPL in London area
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PPL in London area
I've read some of the previous threads on this but it seems schools go bust like hot cakes these days!
I am sure lots of people are looking for similar advice so worth putting it out there in a more up to date way.
There are SO many options for a PPL in london.
Locations: Elstree, Biggin Hill, Southend, Denham to name a few.
If you dont have a car and catch the train etc you want an easy toget one sure?
Costs: vary from £6500 for 45 hour courses to £9K for more inclusive courses.
Its impossible to compare liek for like - so i started a spreadsheet. and soon gave up!
PAYG V Upfront. you get MASSIVE discounts if you pay up front but thats not always possible. plus what happens when the school goes bankrupt owing you money!
NPPL V PPL - its cheaper and a good way but limits your flying. Can you upgrade?
Any sensible and friendly advice?
I have shortlisted it to EFG in Biggin Hill and Pilot Centre Denham so far awaiting a few others to get back to ( Firecrest and Elstree etc )
Cabair seem to have disappeared!
driving me insane trying to work out where to train at a good price and somewhere easy to get to from central london.
Much appreciated.
I am sure lots of people are looking for similar advice so worth putting it out there in a more up to date way.
There are SO many options for a PPL in london.
Locations: Elstree, Biggin Hill, Southend, Denham to name a few.
If you dont have a car and catch the train etc you want an easy toget one sure?
Costs: vary from £6500 for 45 hour courses to £9K for more inclusive courses.
Its impossible to compare liek for like - so i started a spreadsheet. and soon gave up!
PAYG V Upfront. you get MASSIVE discounts if you pay up front but thats not always possible. plus what happens when the school goes bankrupt owing you money!
NPPL V PPL - its cheaper and a good way but limits your flying. Can you upgrade?
Any sensible and friendly advice?
I have shortlisted it to EFG in Biggin Hill and Pilot Centre Denham so far awaiting a few others to get back to ( Firecrest and Elstree etc )
Cabair seem to have disappeared!
driving me insane trying to work out where to train at a good price and somewhere easy to get to from central london.
Much appreciated.
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There is also Wycombe Air Park (EGTB). Wycombe is mainline from Marylebone train station and there is a bus that runs from the town to the airfield.
Up at Wycombe (or Booker as its otherwise known) you have Airways flying club and Wycombe Air Centre. Alternatively you have Light Sport Flying if you want NPPL on microlights.
Up at Wycombe (or Booker as its otherwise known) you have Airways flying club and Wycombe Air Centre. Alternatively you have Light Sport Flying if you want NPPL on microlights.
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I built a spreadsheet which covers:
North London Flying School (Panshangar)
The Pilot Centre (Denham)
Firecrest Aviation (Elstree)
Andrewsfield Aviation (Andrewsfield)
The Flight Centre (South End)
I can't work out how to post attachments (is it against forum rules?), so PM me your e-mail and I'll fire it over if you like?
It includes travel costs from the relevant central London mainline station and a cab fare at the other end if required (both return), as on inspection it turns out the cheapest flying hours may not lead to the cheapest PPL costs overall.
I've also factored in the correct circuit and landing costs when not included as well as the upfront and PAYG options.
North London Flying School (Panshangar)
The Pilot Centre (Denham)
Firecrest Aviation (Elstree)
Andrewsfield Aviation (Andrewsfield)
The Flight Centre (South End)
I can't work out how to post attachments (is it against forum rules?), so PM me your e-mail and I'll fire it over if you like?
It includes travel costs from the relevant central London mainline station and a cab fare at the other end if required (both return), as on inspection it turns out the cheapest flying hours may not lead to the cheapest PPL costs overall.
I've also factored in the correct circuit and landing costs when not included as well as the upfront and PAYG options.
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No idea on London schools. But when looking at achieving a PPL or an NPPL my advice is to go for the full JAR PPL. Reasons for this include having the opportunity to undertake further ratings and qualifications which can significantly lift restrictions.
If it is cost that is of concern talk to those who have done the NPPL. As far as I am aware the course is a minimum of 35 hours. The JAR PPL being 45. In both cases flying schools generally advise to budget for more than these to achieve either licence. There are also people who are competent enough to pass the skills test in less time too. However you do it, PAYG is the financially safe option and I wouldn't do it any other way, regardless of the reputation of the school.
IMO it makes sense to aim for the full PPL as there is only one extra topic in the syllabus (instrument appreciation) and even with 10 hours extra this is a tiny amount in the grand scheme (this will probably cost less than doing an NPPL and converting to a JAR PPL later too).
Just my thoughts and good luck with whatever you choose!
If it is cost that is of concern talk to those who have done the NPPL. As far as I am aware the course is a minimum of 35 hours. The JAR PPL being 45. In both cases flying schools generally advise to budget for more than these to achieve either licence. There are also people who are competent enough to pass the skills test in less time too. However you do it, PAYG is the financially safe option and I wouldn't do it any other way, regardless of the reputation of the school.
IMO it makes sense to aim for the full PPL as there is only one extra topic in the syllabus (instrument appreciation) and even with 10 hours extra this is a tiny amount in the grand scheme (this will probably cost less than doing an NPPL and converting to a JAR PPL later too).
Just my thoughts and good luck with whatever you choose!
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volare123
A few points of note for you:
Cabair have ceased operations pending receivership after their accounts were frozen. This is as of a couple of days ago, I haven't updated myself since.
Redhill is another option worth looking at. Interesting airspace, and the wet weather runway is also interesting.
A few things you may also want to consider:
Reputation and finances - Ask around, past students etc. Any school should happily go over their figures with you - pass/failure rates etc. When I face choices like this I spend an evening digging out a little bit of dirt on the place (they'll all have some) which didn't actually bother me, and then asking the place about it. If they try to talk around it or deny it in a way I did not believe as opposed to openly talking about it, I take my custom elsewhere.
The airfield:
As you say, with no car, you will want somewhere that is easy to get to. If you can ride or walk instead of taxi's you will save enough for another hour every year or so.
Also consider the airfield itself. If you are learning in winter, a hard runway would be well worth your time. As soon as the runway is waterlogged, you will not be flying for a while, and this could affect how long your training takes as you'll have to relearn things when you start again.
The club:
What are the facilities like? Are the briefing rooms portacabins with no heating, no air con, no windows? Are the planes in good condition? Ask to go out and kick the tyres a bit. A clean plane isn't necessarily in better condition than a dirty one, but you'll quickly get a feel how good the aircraft are. Ask about maintenance, where is it done? (A look at the rest of the club will give you an idea on how the place is run, is it tidy and clean, or is it messy and uncared for?).
Do they have an in house examiner or do you need to find one?
Will you be able to train with the same instructor the whole way through your course? Can you choose your instructor when you find the right one? Can you swap for an hour or two if you're struggling with part of the course?
The feeling:
You'll be fairly certain when you find the right one. The instructors talk to you openly about anything, and you feel at home and are happy with the aircraft. It's more important to have the right instructor than almost anything else.
One final note - Do NOT pay up front. You have seen that places can and do go under. No matter what the savings, do not pay more up front than you are happy to say goodbye too. Any place that desperate for your money in their kitty is probably not worth looking at anyway.
Cabair have ceased operations pending receivership after their accounts were frozen. This is as of a couple of days ago, I haven't updated myself since.
Redhill is another option worth looking at. Interesting airspace, and the wet weather runway is also interesting.
A few things you may also want to consider:
Reputation and finances - Ask around, past students etc. Any school should happily go over their figures with you - pass/failure rates etc. When I face choices like this I spend an evening digging out a little bit of dirt on the place (they'll all have some) which didn't actually bother me, and then asking the place about it. If they try to talk around it or deny it in a way I did not believe as opposed to openly talking about it, I take my custom elsewhere.
The airfield:
As you say, with no car, you will want somewhere that is easy to get to. If you can ride or walk instead of taxi's you will save enough for another hour every year or so.
Also consider the airfield itself. If you are learning in winter, a hard runway would be well worth your time. As soon as the runway is waterlogged, you will not be flying for a while, and this could affect how long your training takes as you'll have to relearn things when you start again.
The club:
What are the facilities like? Are the briefing rooms portacabins with no heating, no air con, no windows? Are the planes in good condition? Ask to go out and kick the tyres a bit. A clean plane isn't necessarily in better condition than a dirty one, but you'll quickly get a feel how good the aircraft are. Ask about maintenance, where is it done? (A look at the rest of the club will give you an idea on how the place is run, is it tidy and clean, or is it messy and uncared for?).
Do they have an in house examiner or do you need to find one?
Will you be able to train with the same instructor the whole way through your course? Can you choose your instructor when you find the right one? Can you swap for an hour or two if you're struggling with part of the course?
The feeling:
You'll be fairly certain when you find the right one. The instructors talk to you openly about anything, and you feel at home and are happy with the aircraft. It's more important to have the right instructor than almost anything else.
One final note - Do NOT pay up front. You have seen that places can and do go under. No matter what the savings, do not pay more up front than you are happy to say goodbye too. Any place that desperate for your money in their kitty is probably not worth looking at anyway.
Last edited by 4015; 28th Oct 2011 at 07:35. Reason: make bold work
Southend Flying Club.
Good,friendly, well run club. Southend Airport has a direct link from Liverpool St these days with its own station. Nice long runway and not too busy at the moment, although EASYJET will change all that.
Good,friendly, well run club. Southend Airport has a direct link from Liverpool St these days with its own station. Nice long runway and not too busy at the moment, although EASYJET will change all that.
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Thought about Fairoaks? If you pay the school/club annual fee of approx £140, then no landing fees apply at all. It's a paved runway, so good for winter flying. They train on PA28 and C152. Flying school is friendly and the cafe does excellent bacon sarnies. It's 4.5 miles from Woking station, plenty of taxis around. (Waterloo to Woking is about 25 minutes)
Good luck!
Good luck!
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Last year I converted an ICAO PPL to a JAR at Stapleford. I am actually nearer to Southend but no landing fees at Stapleford was a big draw, second was I had a career instructor who was excellent and wanted to get me through in the least possible hours. I am currently doing my IMC rating with him. Large fleet and never had a problem with servicability.
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I live in central London and also have no car,i went to look at many PPL schools before i chose the PILOT CENTRE at Denham for my NPPL. I found getting to Denham was the easiest,although Elstree was the closest.Marylebone-Denham 25 mins plus a 30 min pleasent walk or a 5min £5 taxi ride.
The instruction is good with a good selection of flying instructors and the prices are competitive and the aircraft are well looked after,also its a pleasant airfield.
The instruction is good with a good selection of flying instructors and the prices are competitive and the aircraft are well looked after,also its a pleasant airfield.
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There is also SeaWings flying club at Southend, but their prices seem significantly more than The Flight Centre, however they have a C-172, which the Flight Centre doesn't (other than that they both have C-152's and similar PA-28's I think).
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Any sensible and friendly advice?
1 - Don't pay up front.
2 - Choose somewhere that's easy and convenient to get to. For every hour in the air you'll spend a further hour on the ground (certainly early on in your training). If your journey to the airfield is an hour each way, that's four hours taken up for a single hour's flight.
3 - Don't pay up front.
Did you know that Southend airport has a Train station actually ON the airport. You could walk to the school in 5 minutes.
Seawing flying club have good rates and great atmosphere, Might be worth giving them a call at least.
Seawing flying club have good rates and great atmosphere, Might be worth giving them a call at least.
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Hiya,
I am currently training towards my PPL at The Pilot Centre. I must admit that Denham school exceeded my expectations. Very relaxing, friendly and yet professional atmosphere. Instructors are great! Aircrafts are well looked after! Nice airfield within Heathrow and Northolt TMA which enables you to experience flying within TMA restrictions. My vote goes for The Pilot Centre. Oh and you can prepay £750 to get a decent discount! No need to prepay for the whole course as you never know what your circumstances would be 4-6 months down the line of your training. Also did you sort out your medical? My instructors William and Keith are great! Can't recommend enough the pilot centre at Denham. The business is owned by aviator family and I recently saw a granda flying in one of the aerobatic planes. The family does have a great respect for GA.
I am currently training towards my PPL at The Pilot Centre. I must admit that Denham school exceeded my expectations. Very relaxing, friendly and yet professional atmosphere. Instructors are great! Aircrafts are well looked after! Nice airfield within Heathrow and Northolt TMA which enables you to experience flying within TMA restrictions. My vote goes for The Pilot Centre. Oh and you can prepay £750 to get a decent discount! No need to prepay for the whole course as you never know what your circumstances would be 4-6 months down the line of your training. Also did you sort out your medical? My instructors William and Keith are great! Can't recommend enough the pilot centre at Denham. The business is owned by aviator family and I recently saw a granda flying in one of the aerobatic planes. The family does have a great respect for GA.
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Volare, you may want to ask the awkward question, what restrictions will these London area flying clubs be suffering during the Olympics? this is going to make life difficult for the entire aviation industry in the area, being the best time of year for flying!
If I were you, I would not restrict yourself to one school, but choose a London area school for some weekend flying, and book a two week course further afield, say East Anglia for best weather, perhaps Southend? That would be your holiday plans sorted, and you would progress much more quickly in concentrated training than a weekend here and a weekend there.
I got my PPL at High Wycombe, Wycombe Air Centre (we used to call it Wycombe Scare Centre). They've been around for quite a while and run a good operation.
If I were you, I would not restrict yourself to one school, but choose a London area school for some weekend flying, and book a two week course further afield, say East Anglia for best weather, perhaps Southend? That would be your holiday plans sorted, and you would progress much more quickly in concentrated training than a weekend here and a weekend there.
I got my PPL at High Wycombe, Wycombe Air Centre (we used to call it Wycombe Scare Centre). They've been around for quite a while and run a good operation.
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Bored one day, I "search functioned "the old flying club that I used to work for back in the early 90's.
What came from the search was the amazing way that GA is a like an ancient fly trapped in amber and hasn't changed in a thousand years!
Certain truisims remain:
Big shiny flying schools are as vulnerable to bankruptcy as small ones. So buy your lessons in 10 hr. blocks (not whole courses) to get the discount, but limit your risk by paying with a credit card.
GA has more than a few rogues, believe me, some of the names alluded to on PPrune were operating 20 years ago and are still around today.
The biggest saving you can make on training costs are
1. Take a month of work in early summer and do the course full time. If thats not possible take a week or two and do as much of the early hours close together as you can.
2. Choose your instructor with more care than the school. The ability to communicate, teach, inspire students is given to few, the first two qualities are enough, you might get lucky and find an inspirational instructor. These are not always the "career" instructors. Why would anyone want to stay on poor money, T&C's and security for life? Likewise not all hoursbuilding instructors are there to rip the most out of your wallet, but try to find the starry eyed guy/gals still looking to share the joy of flying with you. And avoid, at all cost, the few barely disguised maniacs that seem to be attracted to this sport. The words 'strong character' always means egotistical a**hole who will be only too keen to show you his skills at your expense.
3 Busy airfields are a pain in the wallet. A 15min noise abatement circuit or holding downwind for the commercial traffic at 10 miles will burn more money than you can believe. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate is what you are taught, in the first few hours your mental capacity will be stretched to do the first, let alone all three, GA airfields under TMA's or sharing a busy commercial environment all need you to do the three, this means you will spend more money picking up the first. Try to find a quiet airfield with a paved runway and avoid learning at the weekend.
4 Budget properly, don't think that 45 hrs is your target, try something like 65 and if you are over 50 flying once a week, budget for 75 plus tests, plus exams, plus licence fees. I can almost see the fingers flying off the keyboards from people who did it at close to the minimum, bully for them, but remember a huge number of people get their license, then let it lapse, ever wondered why? Flying can be cheap, but learning to fly rarely is, the economies can be found post qualification.
If I were choosing a FTI around London, I'd do the same as I did in 1989, walk into the establishment (preferably not on a sunny Sat morning) and see how they treat you, try to speak to the CFI, he sets the tone. Then look at the details, shabby a/c DO mean shabby standards, shabby buildings Don't.
Once you start, don't just accept everything at face value, if you don't like your instructor, change. If you'd prefer to train in the PA28, ask to do it. Do your homework before the lesson. Not repeating a detail saves you hundreds of pounds.
Finally, never, ever give up, it really is a great thing to do.
ps after a little more searching, I'd take a look at Henlow Flying Club, it fails the paved runway test, but I could vouch for the CFI as a very good bloke.
What came from the search was the amazing way that GA is a like an ancient fly trapped in amber and hasn't changed in a thousand years!
Certain truisims remain:
Big shiny flying schools are as vulnerable to bankruptcy as small ones. So buy your lessons in 10 hr. blocks (not whole courses) to get the discount, but limit your risk by paying with a credit card.
GA has more than a few rogues, believe me, some of the names alluded to on PPrune were operating 20 years ago and are still around today.
The biggest saving you can make on training costs are
1. Take a month of work in early summer and do the course full time. If thats not possible take a week or two and do as much of the early hours close together as you can.
2. Choose your instructor with more care than the school. The ability to communicate, teach, inspire students is given to few, the first two qualities are enough, you might get lucky and find an inspirational instructor. These are not always the "career" instructors. Why would anyone want to stay on poor money, T&C's and security for life? Likewise not all hoursbuilding instructors are there to rip the most out of your wallet, but try to find the starry eyed guy/gals still looking to share the joy of flying with you. And avoid, at all cost, the few barely disguised maniacs that seem to be attracted to this sport. The words 'strong character' always means egotistical a**hole who will be only too keen to show you his skills at your expense.
3 Busy airfields are a pain in the wallet. A 15min noise abatement circuit or holding downwind for the commercial traffic at 10 miles will burn more money than you can believe. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate is what you are taught, in the first few hours your mental capacity will be stretched to do the first, let alone all three, GA airfields under TMA's or sharing a busy commercial environment all need you to do the three, this means you will spend more money picking up the first. Try to find a quiet airfield with a paved runway and avoid learning at the weekend.
4 Budget properly, don't think that 45 hrs is your target, try something like 65 and if you are over 50 flying once a week, budget for 75 plus tests, plus exams, plus licence fees. I can almost see the fingers flying off the keyboards from people who did it at close to the minimum, bully for them, but remember a huge number of people get their license, then let it lapse, ever wondered why? Flying can be cheap, but learning to fly rarely is, the economies can be found post qualification.
If I were choosing a FTI around London, I'd do the same as I did in 1989, walk into the establishment (preferably not on a sunny Sat morning) and see how they treat you, try to speak to the CFI, he sets the tone. Then look at the details, shabby a/c DO mean shabby standards, shabby buildings Don't.
Once you start, don't just accept everything at face value, if you don't like your instructor, change. If you'd prefer to train in the PA28, ask to do it. Do your homework before the lesson. Not repeating a detail saves you hundreds of pounds.
Finally, never, ever give up, it really is a great thing to do.
ps after a little more searching, I'd take a look at Henlow Flying Club, it fails the paved runway test, but I could vouch for the CFI as a very good bloke.
Last edited by macdo; 12th Nov 2011 at 07:08.
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I trained at Southend and enjoyed it, but looking at recent threads about C152 prices, it's getting very expensive there. Of the three remaining clubs, Seawing is the best (cheaper than SFC, friendlier than Flightcentre). On the downside, flying into unmanned strips post qual did feel very strange after so much radio work during training.
Headcorn is a very nice field, no landing fees for residents and there is a station cycling distance away.
When I was choosing where to learn, distance from home was a big consideration and that proved a good call. Nothing is more discouraging than travelling for ages to find the weather's too poor or the aircraft won't start.
The biggest though, is the instructor; 30 plus hours in a two seater with someone you don't get on with or don't have full confidence in will do you no good at all.
Headcorn is a very nice field, no landing fees for residents and there is a station cycling distance away.
When I was choosing where to learn, distance from home was a big consideration and that proved a good call. Nothing is more discouraging than travelling for ages to find the weather's too poor or the aircraft won't start.
The biggest though, is the instructor; 30 plus hours in a two seater with someone you don't get on with or don't have full confidence in will do you no good at all.
