Aircraft valeting?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aircraft valeting?
Whats peoples views on this?
Would you have it done or have you had it done and what were your experiences?
Not sure if its something worth trying
Would you have it done or have you had it done and what were your experiences?
Not sure if its something worth trying
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its knowing what people want and what they are prepared to pay.
Lots of car valeters do it but i dont think they have enough knowledge of the sensitivity of the plane etc
Lots of car valeters do it but i dont think they have enough knowledge of the sensitivity of the plane etc
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is the view that id rather fly than wash my plane on a sunday?
I personally loved cleaning and polishing my cars seeing the immaculate results and i aslo love flying and planes so to combine the two and get a living from it sounds perfect to me!
I personally loved cleaning and polishing my cars seeing the immaculate results and i aslo love flying and planes so to combine the two and get a living from it sounds perfect to me!
Moderator
Presuming that I should understand "cleaning" [of the aircraft] as the meaning of "valeting", I'm all for it!
I spent a large portion of my early flying career on my back, cleaning the belly of filthy planes, in return for later flying them. Happily, this included 3 Piper Aztecs. I would be delighted for an eager person to offer to wash and wax my planes, in return for a few hours of flying them with me....
I spent a large portion of my early flying career on my back, cleaning the belly of filthy planes, in return for later flying them. Happily, this included 3 Piper Aztecs. I would be delighted for an eager person to offer to wash and wax my planes, in return for a few hours of flying them with me....
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Humberside
Age: 58
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Valeting
There are a couple of companies that do this but mainly based down south.
I know one operates out of Compton Abbas and charge around £300
for full valet inc silicone wax.
I saw them at last years aero-expo.
I know one operates out of Compton Abbas and charge around £300
for full valet inc silicone wax.
I saw them at last years aero-expo.
Probably fine at light airfields, but if you try any of the airports I presume you are going to get into all sorts of security hassle. Airside passes for personel and vehicles, open tubs of polish and detergents.
Do you have to use aproved cleaning products?
And then there is insurance just in case you have a problem/accident or damage something.
Just trying to be helpefull friends have tried this before.
Do you have to use aproved cleaning products?
And then there is insurance just in case you have a problem/accident or damage something.
Just trying to be helpefull friends have tried this before.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 939
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cleaning aeroplanes isn't like cleaning cars, it's a specialist job. I've used Propwash in the past and they are excellent. It took two blokes a whole day to clean my Archer 2 properly and that included an acrylic polish which helped keeps the bugs and ice from sticking and also added about 5kts to its speed.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes you do as normal car products can contain chemicals that can get into little nooks and crannies and cause corrosion in time.
I have done a lot of research and i know its a specialist job but how do you think the likes of propwash got so good?
And do you know if the products they use are approved for aircraft use?
Any products i choose to use will be approved.
Does anyone know of any insurers for liabilty?
I have done a lot of research and i know its a specialist job but how do you think the likes of propwash got so good?
And do you know if the products they use are approved for aircraft use?
Any products i choose to use will be approved.
Does anyone know of any insurers for liabilty?
Moderator
Lyons,
I'll be surprised if you find any "authority" who "approves" cleaing materials for aircraft. Generally, you'd expect to find "approved" elements of an aircraft listed on the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the aircraft, engine, or propeller. To save you the trouble, you won't find cleaning agents listed there. The only liquids you'll find would be fuel, oils and additives for the foregoing. You might find information in the "un approved" section of the flight manual, or maintenance manual.
The main caution is to be very careful to not use automotive window chemicals designed for glass, on the plastic aircraft windows - crazing which could result would be very not good. Rain repellant, in particular. Other than that, all of the washing soaps, polishes and waxes I have used on my plane for the 24 years I have owned it, were automotive. My only comment about wax, is to avoid "Rain Dance" brand, simply because it contains a blue dye, which makes it conspicuous around rivet heads if you don't get it all off. It does no harm, it just looks poor.
If someone tells you that it's "approved" for aircraft use, as to see the approval.....
I'll be surprised if you find any "authority" who "approves" cleaing materials for aircraft. Generally, you'd expect to find "approved" elements of an aircraft listed on the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the aircraft, engine, or propeller. To save you the trouble, you won't find cleaning agents listed there. The only liquids you'll find would be fuel, oils and additives for the foregoing. You might find information in the "un approved" section of the flight manual, or maintenance manual.
The main caution is to be very careful to not use automotive window chemicals designed for glass, on the plastic aircraft windows - crazing which could result would be very not good. Rain repellant, in particular. Other than that, all of the washing soaps, polishes and waxes I have used on my plane for the 24 years I have owned it, were automotive. My only comment about wax, is to avoid "Rain Dance" brand, simply because it contains a blue dye, which makes it conspicuous around rivet heads if you don't get it all off. It does no harm, it just looks poor.
If someone tells you that it's "approved" for aircraft use, as to see the approval.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Dar,
Thanks for that post im finding some information like the one on this link
Jetstream\ Aviation\ Products - Wet Wash System
Is it just made up? If so, boy do i feel stupid now!
Yeah i have also researched the windscreen cautions and found a product flexiglass to have very good reviews and am aware that windows should be cleaned virtically so if tiny scratches are fromed it would not impare or trick the pilots.
Still doing lots of research and nothing is set in stone, was just trying to make something of myself in an industry i love and i can assure everyone this is one field i will not take lightly
Thanks for that post im finding some information like the one on this link
Jetstream\ Aviation\ Products - Wet Wash System
Is it just made up? If so, boy do i feel stupid now!
Yeah i have also researched the windscreen cautions and found a product flexiglass to have very good reviews and am aware that windows should be cleaned virtically so if tiny scratches are fromed it would not impare or trick the pilots.
Still doing lots of research and nothing is set in stone, was just trying to make something of myself in an industry i love and i can assure everyone this is one field i will not take lightly
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst it's true that the materials must be checked prior to use, it's not rocket science. I've used a few specialist companies and was amazed how much of their arsenal was made by auto glym. There are a few areas to be wary of. Especially the shampoo you use as it gets in everywhere. Make sure its non caustic Also what you use on windows etc. I flew a 6 month old Bonanza last week with a horrendously marked windshield. And as most will testify don't rush out and buy a pressure washer. Waste of time.
Good luck
Good luck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks silver
I have been in touch with autoglym and they said they are specifically told to advise their products are not suitable for aviation use!
Thanks for the tips mate
I have been in touch with autoglym and they said they are specifically told to advise their products are not suitable for aviation use!
Thanks for the tips mate
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We used the Essex valeting expert for the Arrow at Southend (which we've now sold). He did an excellent job, to a standard we'd find it hard to achieve, for a pretty fair price.
It's a skilled and specialist service - using car cleaning chemicals is a no-no (or so he told us).
It's a skilled and specialist service - using car cleaning chemicals is a no-no (or so he told us).
Moderator
Lyons,
"Approved" has a higher order of authority in aviation than other similar terms. "Approval" conveys that a regulatory authority has issued an approval of conformity to a national design standard applicable to that category of aircraft. I have never been aware of any national standard for cleaning products.
Manufacturers do issue specifications for products and materials which meet their requirements for use on their aircraft. Through a process other than regulatory "approval", a product can be found to meet, or conform to these requirements, and be so advertised. That's a "nice to have" as opposed to a "gotta have", though it can quite reasonably form the basis of a contract for work. A client could say "all materials used shall conform to specification XYZ", and that's fine, that's the purpose of the specification.
That said, My plane was painted for me with Imron paint in 1992, and since then, I have washed it with plain old dishwashing soap, and waxed it with "Nu Finish" car wax. I have been very pleased with the outcome. For really yuckky mess on the belly, a product called "Varsol", then "Spray 9", then a soap wash, and it's perfect.
I do realize that these products might be unique to North America, so don't frustrate yourself looking too hard for them in the UK, but they will have equivilents. If your clients want to pay for cleaners that conform to aircraft manufacturer's specifications, no problem, but "regular" cleaners work fine too - other than windows!
Get the cleaners for windows right, depending upon what type of window material it is. If you get near heated or coated winshields, really get your materials and techniques right!
Windows aside, we're talking airplanes here... I know there's a mystique about them, but we're not cleaning surgical instruments! Much lower criticality!
I know that the nuances of "approved", and the other similar words seems like trivial word games, but if aircraft are formally "approved" and an industry depends upon the serious intent of such an "approval", people can benefit from an understanding of where "approval" starts and ends. An aircraft product which is "approved" presents itself as having a national (FAA/CAA etc.) approval. If a product is "approved" by Cessna, and you're using it on a Cessna, that's great, and yes, it's approved - by Cessna, but that's not quite the same as "approved".
And yes, I know that's a whole bunch too much to write about soap!
As for:
No, those people are not correct. The more smooth the airfoil, the better it flies. I would not want to suggest that you could reduce the stall speed of an aircraft by making the surface smooth, but you can certainly increase the stall speed of some airfoils by making the surface rough. Perhaps a sailplane expert would elaborate on this....
"Approved" has a higher order of authority in aviation than other similar terms. "Approval" conveys that a regulatory authority has issued an approval of conformity to a national design standard applicable to that category of aircraft. I have never been aware of any national standard for cleaning products.
Manufacturers do issue specifications for products and materials which meet their requirements for use on their aircraft. Through a process other than regulatory "approval", a product can be found to meet, or conform to these requirements, and be so advertised. That's a "nice to have" as opposed to a "gotta have", though it can quite reasonably form the basis of a contract for work. A client could say "all materials used shall conform to specification XYZ", and that's fine, that's the purpose of the specification.
That said, My plane was painted for me with Imron paint in 1992, and since then, I have washed it with plain old dishwashing soap, and waxed it with "Nu Finish" car wax. I have been very pleased with the outcome. For really yuckky mess on the belly, a product called "Varsol", then "Spray 9", then a soap wash, and it's perfect.
I do realize that these products might be unique to North America, so don't frustrate yourself looking too hard for them in the UK, but they will have equivilents. If your clients want to pay for cleaners that conform to aircraft manufacturer's specifications, no problem, but "regular" cleaners work fine too - other than windows!
Get the cleaners for windows right, depending upon what type of window material it is. If you get near heated or coated winshields, really get your materials and techniques right!
Windows aside, we're talking airplanes here... I know there's a mystique about them, but we're not cleaning surgical instruments! Much lower criticality!
I know that the nuances of "approved", and the other similar words seems like trivial word games, but if aircraft are formally "approved" and an industry depends upon the serious intent of such an "approval", people can benefit from an understanding of where "approval" starts and ends. An aircraft product which is "approved" presents itself as having a national (FAA/CAA etc.) approval. If a product is "approved" by Cessna, and you're using it on a Cessna, that's great, and yes, it's approved - by Cessna, but that's not quite the same as "approved".
And yes, I know that's a whole bunch too much to write about soap!
As for:
Also using wax to polish the aircraft can create a bit of a problem. Many people believe it will increase the stall speed of the aircraft
