How much is a MEP rating for a PPL?

[benppl]

Looking at getting a share in this

Aircraft Grouping - Piper Aztec

Cheers

[S-Works]

Budget for about £2k

[Unusual Attitude]

6 hours training + 1 hour for skills test, a Seneca is about £350 - £400 per hr nowadays...

"Monthly Standing Charge NIL
Hourly Rate £250 Per Hour Wet"

Seems a bit cheap to me for a twin, a complex single is getting to that sort of cost nowadays given the price of fuel, especially given the Nil monthly standing charge, that seems a bit fishy...

Edit - I'd suspect the rub is that as a joint owner you are jointly responsible for the maintenance costs and that the wet rate includes no engine fund etc to keep it attractive.... could be a sore one at annual time when you have to stump up your fair share of a very big bill regardless of how many hours you've flown.

[benppl]

Cheers for the heads up

Ill, have a chat with the owner.

[JUST-local]

I would have a look at this first! Said aircraft does not seem to have flown for around 20 months?

GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Safety Regulation

[Fuji Abound]

I would budget for more than £2K.

A lot will depend on what you have done before. If you are high hours in a high performance aircraft then that is a different matter.

If you are lower on hours, and dont have much time in a HP single I would doubt it is possible.

The Aztec is a great aircraft but it is a proper twin with quite different handling characteristics from a single and old if entirely functional systems (assuming they all work).

You will find the work load in the circuit is quite hard to start with and dont forget the circuit work will include plenty of asymetry.

I know nothing of the aircraft but doubtless you will take account of the other posts, just wanted to comment on the cost.

[S-Works]

Speaking as an ME Instructor and Examiner it is rare to find people who take more than the minimum hours to gain the rating. I would say around 95% pass in minima.

Most people doing an ME rating are doing it for a purpose and as such arrive focused and ready to learn.

Just remember gaining the rating is just the starting point of your experience.

Constant practice and preparation will save you making a drama out of a minor event and shutting down an international airport.....

[BillieBob]

The title of the thread is interesting "How much is a MEP rating for a PPL?" At present, the cost of a rating of any sort does not depend on the licence to which it is attached. You go to an FTO, do the required training and get the rating, which may then be applied to a PPL, CPL or ATPL. Under the new EASA rules, however, things are a little different - an instructor must, in order to give flight instruction of any kind, hold at least the licence held by the student. This means, for example, that the holder of an ATPL wishing to renew a long expired MEP rating must find an instructor who also holds an ATPL to conduct the mandatory refresher training.

[Fuji Abound]

Bose

I hate to bite but then again it is sometimes fun.

An engine failure for me could either be a major or minor event. Part of my training included assessing the risk. I will continue to include the threat of an engine fire as a very good reason to make the right command decision than wish i had made the same decision while the engine was on fire. So i would rather you had said constant practice and solid training will help in making sound decisions. I consider myself to have been very lucky to have had both.

For me the threat of an engine fire will remain a drama and i will take some convincing otherwise but you are most welcome to try.

My earlier post was not gratuitous criticism, but simply that we see things differently. Given the costs of my local aztec and knowledge of low hours pilots who have embarked on a mep i hold you would do well to complete for that price, but hey, if you reckon you can do it, i am not saying you cant.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by Fuji Abound

For me the threat of an engine fire will remain a drama and i will take some convincing otherwise but you are most welcome to try.

.

Standby for thread creep

The danger of an engine fire in a normally aspirated light twin is IMO greatly overblown. I never been able to find an accident/incident account of an actual engine fire in a light twin that did not go out on its own as soon as the engine was feathered and the shut down checklist actioned.

The risk which IMO is rather underrated is the EFATO scenario. This is a desperate emergency in a light twin because of the very poor climb performance of all light twins. The miniscule rate of climb (300 ft/min at most) will only be obtained with the gear and flaps up, the prop feathered and the airspeed at Vyse. The aircraft will have negative climb performance if any of these factors are missing. In particular the chance of cleaning up the aircraft, feathering the prop and accelerating to blue line without loosing altitude is for all practical purposes an impossibility.

Therefore on takeoff, untill you have a solid ROC at blue line with the gear and flaps up the automatic response should be to close both throttles and land ahead. Similarly below 300 feet in the landing configuration on a single engine approach you are committed to land.

[Ryan5252]

an instructor must, in order to give flight instruction of any kind, hold at least the licence held by the student.

It was my understanding that the instructor must at least hold the licence/rating for which they are providing instruction. i.e one could not conduct training for an IR unless they themselves held an IR.

[Fuji Abound]

Bpe

It wasnt a normally aspirated light twin but a turbo charged thielert diesel. Whether there was a fire risk at the time maybe debatable but with new(ish) technology at the time and significant over temp warnings it was not a risk i was happy to divert further with.

In any event if there is an available diversion i am not keen on continuing to another further away whatever the circumstances just because the first is larger. I fully appreciate some may take a different view.

In fact the diversion didnt cause any delays with one cat inbound at the time which was vectored wide and not put in the hold. Bose has a slightly over active imagination and or is enjoying a little teasing perhaps in recompense for having misjudged the imcr issue.

Anyway thread creep over - a debate for another day.

[Whopity]

Ryan5252

the holder of an ATPL wishing to renew a long expired MEP rating must find an instructor who also holds an ATPL to conduct the mandatory refresher training.

Read the qualifying statement:

Under the new EASA rules

Just as well Microlights are outside the scope of Part FCL!

[B4aeros]

I'm sure Ryan 5252 is referring to the new EASA rules.

I can find no requirement for the instructor to hold more ratings than the student, only that

A person shall only carry out:
(1) flight instruction in aircraft when he/she holds:
(i) a pilot licence issued or accepted in accordance with this Regulation;
(ii) an instructor certificate appropriate to the instruction given, issued in accordance with this Subpart;

and in a later section

(1) hold at least the licence and, where relevant, the rating for which flight instruction is to be given;
. . .
(3) be entitled to act as PIC on the aircraft during such flight instruction.

[BillieBob]

I can find no requirement for the instructor to hold more ratings than the student

I never said there was, just that he must hold at least an equivalent licence. The critical factor is the wording "...must hold at least the licence and, where relevant, the rating...." i.e. when instructing for a rating to be applied to an ATPL, the instructor must himself hold both an ATPL and the relevant rating.

The intent of this requirement is clear if you read the Comment Response Document where it is questioned and confirmed.