EASA AND THE IMCR - NEWS

[derekl29]

I guess the question on my mind was whether I had to race against time to get my IMC training and exam finished before April.

The AOPA site seems to suggest that I don't, and that an IMC rating can be added to my JAA PPL licence "into the future".

Am I right in saying I have a little more time here? In any case I`m going to try and get it finished by April anyway, unless the weather conspires against me!

[BEagle]

derekl29, please RTFM!!!

1. Is there a deadline by which time I need to have completed my IMC Rating training and testing?

The answer to this "No!". Our CAA friend Cliff Whittaker has stated "It will be possible to add or renew an IMC rating on a UK non-JAR/non-EASA licence into the future, but within a few years those licences will no longer be valid for EASA aircraft". The CAA website already indicates that those of you who do not hold a 'UK non-JAR/non-EASA' licence will shortly be able to apply for a supplementary United Kingdom licence, within which your new IMC Rating may be included. However, under current EASA proposals, as Cliff has said, within a few years the IMC Rating may not (unless 'grandfathered') be valid for use on EASA aircraft.

Genghis,

There may be a loophole opening up here.

According to the AOPA website, the IMC will become called the Instrument Rating (Restricted UK).

No it doesn't say that! It says:

EASA admits that it cannot remove any existing privileges from those so qualified. So the likely effect of this is that anyone who 'holds or has held IMC Rating privileges' before a certain date will be able to have these privileges included in an EASA pilot licence, probably as an 'Instrument Rating (Restricted UK)' which, despite the description (and anything else you might have read elsewhere), will be identical to the existing IMC Rating.

No loophole at all. There is absolutely NO intention to extend the present ANO-defined IMCR privileges. We had enough problems with people trying to use other aspects of regulation for inappropriate purposes - and if people start putting the word around about such (non-existent) 'loopholes', then they will be playing into the hands of those who would wish to see the IMCR killed off.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Fair point.

G

[BEagle]

No.

1) Pilot with current, valid JAA PPL and IMC right now.

>Post April will receive an EASA PPL with a "UK National Basic IR", valid for tootling around in a C172 or whatever, in IMC, in UK airspace only

Such a pilot will probably be able to apply for an EASA PPL with whatever the legacy IMCR will be called, but the date upon which this will be possible has not been decided. In any case, the pilot may continue to fly using a JAR-FCL PPL with IMCR for private purposes until 8 Apr 2015 and doesn't need to apply for an EASA PPL until the JAR-FCL PPL reaches its 5 year expiry date.

2) Pilot with current, valid JAA PPL *only* but who adds an IMC after April this year.

>Post April will receive an EASA PPL and may apply for a "UK National PPL with IMC". However, from 2015 will only be allowed to fly a C172 VFR as the "UK National PPL" will not be valid and the post-April IMC cannot be attached to the EASA PPL. To fly IMC will have to find a Permit-To-Fly Bulldog or similar.

Again, such a pilot may apply for an EASA PPL after July 2012 but doesn't actually need to do so until the JAR-FCL PPL reaches its 5 year expiry date. He/she will also need to apply for a supplementary United Kingdom PPL (not an NPPL) within which the IMCR may be included. He/she may use IMCR privileges on both EASA and non-EASA aircraft until Apr 2015, after which the IMCR privileges may only be used on non-EASA aircraft. At the moment Permit to Fly aircraft may not be flown in IMC, but that might change. A Bulldog with a CofA will be fine though.

However, nothing is 100% certain at this stage, because the CAA are still deliberating and the EASA ruling following NPA 2011-16 will not become law until probably Q4 of 2013 at the earliest.

[Cows getting bigger]

Thanks Beagle, now my head hurts.

[chubbychopper]

BEagle, do you undertake any kind of private work in this field by any chance? I think I might have a client who is in need of your EASA "rule making/interpreting" talents and knowledge.

[flybymike]

Patrick Goudou? Eric Sivel?

[BEagle]

BEagle, do you undertake any kind of private work in this field by any chance?

The only work I do is unpaid assistance in this field for AOPA(UK), GAPAN and IAOPA(UK).

[thing]

He/she may use IMCR privileges on both EASA and non-EASA aircraft until Apr 2015, after which the IMCR privileges may only be used on non-EASA aircraft.

I hardly dare mention this for fear you may pull my brains out through my nose, but does this mean (in simple terms that a thicko like me can understand) that unless you fly non EASA like a Spitfire or such like then the IMCR rating is finished after April 2015? IE if I have one now I can't use it after then? Please be gentle.

[S-Works]

Not finished, just not much use. The hope is to get something else in place that works.

[peterh337]

I simply do not believe the IMCR will cease to be usable for CofA aircraft operated under Part M.

Politically this would be a very hot potato because of the obvious safety angle and the total absence of any supporting evidence for removing it, and the totally obvious fact that the entire drive behind this is a purely political piece of EU empire building

Anyway, you could always go N-reg. I have it in writing from the FAA that the IMCR is valid for an N-reg (complies with FAR 61.3). Not everyone agrees, of course.

[Genghis the Engineer]

N reg in the UK, or USA, or both?

G

[thing]

Not finished, just not much use. The hope is to get something else in place that works.

Is that as in 'Yes you can still keep it but you can't use it'? I was under the impression, ludicrous though it may seem that the IMCR was going to be made a partial EASA IR that you can only use in the UK. In other words it will still be an IMCR rating and everything carries on as before except they may call it something different.

Do they employ people at the CAA/EASA whose sole aim in life is to produce inpenetrable regulataions? Or to say 'After x years and 90 squillion quid of your money spent the answer is that we don't know what the answer is'?

It seems whenever you ask there's always an underlying 'Ah well there are things going on that are best kept quiet at the moment.' In other words, no one has a clue. Can we just turn them into pies and feed the poor?

[peterh337]

N reg in the UK, or USA, or both?

Anywhere, possibly.

[rats404]

Please, before I'm b****cked for not reading through the thread, I really have and have tried to understand things.

So, here is my situation.

1. I've recently revalidated an old brown CAA "for life" PPL, which I was awarded in 1991.

2. I really want to obtain the IMC rating, because I can see how important it can be to provide an extra safety margin in UK weather.

My questions are.

A. Do I have to have passed an IMC rating test before 1st April 2012 to be able to exercise the privileges?

B. if the answer to (A) is no, when must I have passed the test to ensure I can use the privileges of the IMC rating?

C. If the answer to (A) is yes, and I am unable to pass the rating test before 1st April 2012, what are my alternatives? Do I have to train for a PPL/IR?

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I have read every post in this thread, and my flying club (which is excellent) has no clear answer.

All responses appreciated, just remember you are responding to a thick ex-squaddie

Rats404

[peterh337]

The short answer is that nobody actually knows.

It would however appear wise to get the IMCR before April 2012, just in case.

[rats404]

Thanks Peter, that was the impression I'd obtained, but wondered if I was just being thick.

Edit: Actually, on reflection, I'm going to send exactly the same questions to personnel licencing at the CAA and see what response I get.

Rats404

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I'm going to send exactly the same questions to personnel licencing at the CAA and see what response I get.

Those of us who have tried that tend to get answers along the lines of "nobody knows, but why don't you send us £84 for luck anyway". (Or whatever they think it costs this week to swap your lifetime CAA PPL for a 5 year expiring JAA one.)

[rats404]

Erm, thanks. I think I'll hold off then and keep my head below the parapet...

Some of the best advice I ever got was "be the grey man".

Rats404

[peterh337]

Actually the best advice, for a GA pilot, is keep one step ahead of the powers to be in the paper collection exercise

That is why I did the JAA IR even though I already have the FAA CPL/IR and the EASA proposal is not due till April 2014. The 15hr conversion route becomes undefined after April 2012...