Going for the PPL at 70?
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Must admit my typing skills are a bit slow.
Glad to know there are more than me out there.
& just to push the knife in a bit further,
Shouldn't that be "thinking"?
I am considerably touchy about this since being reffered to, (out of my hearing by 200yds), as a "deaf old git" by a 30yr old relative who fell asleep at the wheel of his car whilst my 68yr old wife was on board!
Glad to know there are more than me out there.
& just to push the knife in a bit further,
I wasn't think of 'reflexes',
I am considerably touchy about this since being reffered to, (out of my hearing by 200yds), as a "deaf old git" by a 30yr old relative who fell asleep at the wheel of his car whilst my 68yr old wife was on board!
Last edited by Crash one; 31st Aug 2011 at 22:59.
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Crash one,
Unfortunatley that's the whole problem.
The over-70s to whom I refer lead a very active life and so it's important to stress I'm not trying to "put them down" in any sense, I think it's great they're constantly taking up new hobbies and keeping active.
The problem remains that they have a high-degree of self-confidence in their abilities, and because of the seniority complex that has been demonstrated in reply to my post (i.e. what can a young whipper snapper possibly teach me) you're never going to be able to convince them to tone down the confidence levels when flying.
The fact remains that fundamental flight safety issues were demonstrated on the two flights to which I refer, and I would not hesitate to putting advanced age down as one of the major contributing factors. And this is not only my opinion, but also of others who were present on the flights concerned who were over the age of 60 !
I am utterly speechless.
What a load of utter rubbish.
What a load of utter rubbish.
The over-70s to whom I refer lead a very active life and so it's important to stress I'm not trying to "put them down" in any sense, I think it's great they're constantly taking up new hobbies and keeping active.
The problem remains that they have a high-degree of self-confidence in their abilities, and because of the seniority complex that has been demonstrated in reply to my post (i.e. what can a young whipper snapper possibly teach me) you're never going to be able to convince them to tone down the confidence levels when flying.
The fact remains that fundamental flight safety issues were demonstrated on the two flights to which I refer, and I would not hesitate to putting advanced age down as one of the major contributing factors. And this is not only my opinion, but also of others who were present on the flights concerned who were over the age of 60 !
How do accident figures stack up to age related
Age.............Accidents
Under 20.....1
20-29......... 1
30-39......... 1
40-49..........3
50-59......... 5
60-69..........3
70-77......... 2
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Interesting but potentially misleading - you would need to know the hours flown (or maybe flights made) per age group to get an accident ratio that could be compared. My guess is that there are a lot more 50 year old PPL holders than 20 year old ones which would slew the figures.
I had a student who started his PPL at age 70 and who was 71 when he passed his flight test (he took around 70 hrs, I do not remember the exact time).
He was one of my all time favorite students. He had wanted to learn to fly his whole life but he sacrificed his desires in favour of his family. A small inheritance and a supportive wife finally allowed him to pursue his dream. He was so excited and happy after ever flight it brightened my whole day and it sure was a pleasure to have a student who did all his homework, always showed up on time and worked his ass off. He used his PPL for 5 years of recreational flying until he decided it was time to stop flying.
He was one of my all time favorite students. He had wanted to learn to fly his whole life but he sacrificed his desires in favour of his family. A small inheritance and a supportive wife finally allowed him to pursue his dream. He was so excited and happy after ever flight it brightened my whole day and it sure was a pleasure to have a student who did all his homework, always showed up on time and worked his ass off. He used his PPL for 5 years of recreational flying until he decided it was time to stop flying.
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The problem remains that they have a high-degree of self-confidence in their abilities, and because of the seniority complex that has been demonstrated in reply to my post (i.e. what can a young whipper snapper possibly teach me) you're never going to be able to convince them to tone down the confidence levels when flying.
Sorry but I don't buy that either. Maybe I'm speaking for myself but over confidence has never been one of my virtues. My flying instructors were all under 30 & I had every respect for MOST of them.
After the NPPL I went looking for the tailwheel thing, once again a young instructor, no problems.
I ran out of recency (90days=5 months of maintenance in a freezing hangar) I agonised over that for days until finally bit the bullet & took off for 3 nail biting circuits, followed later by some more until I was satisfied. If I tone down the confidence level any further I would become a dribbling vegetable.
My experience of over confidence & the seniority complex is that it comes from a perception of social standing or "I'm invincible" not age.
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What really gets me incandescent is the fact that the op asked the question at all 
It is pure ageism in its obscene naivety.
Whether a person is capable of learning to fly is dependent on that persons physical & mental abilities, and those abilities are hard wired at an early age. To make an assumption about a person purely on the basis of his/her age is vile ageism.
At 73 I have had to sell my aircraft not because of failing piloting ability but a failure of my pension to keep pace with escalating costs. On the trip to the airport for an occasional refresher flight I am frequently endangered by youngsters driving too fast and having zero situational awareness.
Right now I am busy logging for winter wood with my chain saw (perhaps some H&S official should be informed
) And now the Sept weather has changed I am doing a lot more windsurfing on my 1990 vintage F2 kit (another H&S issue for the local coastguard perhaps
)
People are individuals and need to be treated as such.
It is pure ageism in its obscene naivety.Whether a person is capable of learning to fly is dependent on that persons physical & mental abilities, and those abilities are hard wired at an early age. To make an assumption about a person purely on the basis of his/her age is vile ageism.
At 73 I have had to sell my aircraft not because of failing piloting ability but a failure of my pension to keep pace with escalating costs. On the trip to the airport for an occasional refresher flight I am frequently endangered by youngsters driving too fast and having zero situational awareness.
Right now I am busy logging for winter wood with my chain saw (perhaps some H&S official should be informed
) And now the Sept weather has changed I am doing a lot more windsurfing on my 1990 vintage F2 kit (another H&S issue for the local coastguard perhaps)People are individuals and need to be treated as such.
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Vee
Well said, dropped into Haverfordwest recently, club house was full of pilots with lots of time on the clock of life.
The full english/welsh breaky was among the biggest and best I have seen anywhere! lots of old geezers tucking in, me included.
GGR
Well said, dropped into Haverfordwest recently, club house was full of pilots with lots of time on the clock of life.
The full english/welsh breaky was among the biggest and best I have seen anywhere! lots of old geezers tucking in, me included.
GGR
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vee-tail-1
Thank you, well said. Pity about selling your aircraft. I often wonder how much longer my pension driven flying will last.
I too may be logging today, sliding about on wet grass with the chain saw! how irresponsible.
Thank you, well said. Pity about selling your aircraft. I often wonder how much longer my pension driven flying will last.
I too may be logging today, sliding about on wet grass with the chain saw! how irresponsible.
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Well it's his money , even if it takes ages and he ends up flying with an instructor for quite a while before achieving his ppl , as long as he enjoys the whole experience and its something he wants to do ....... go for it thats what ppl is all about !!!
Flying shouldn't be a closed shop , as long as you are able to do it based on your abilities go for it
Flying shouldn't be a closed shop , as long as you are able to do it based on your abilities go for it
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Why on earth should he take ages? With an instructor for quite a while?
As long as he enjoys the whole experience?
How bloody patronising.
Jeez you would think anyone over the age of puberty was senile.
As long as he enjoys the whole experience?
How bloody patronising.
Jeez you would think anyone over the age of puberty was senile.
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A freind of mine, sadly no longer with us, had a passion for aviation from childhood. He was unable to afford to learn to fly until well past retiral age.
He struggled with many aspects of flying but persevered to finally solo at around fifty hours. (I am not suggesting his age was an issue) He recognised that he may never have the confidence to actually go anywhere if he did eventually pass.
My point is it did not matter to him! He was flying and that was all that he cared about. (He did eventually qualify.)
D.O.
He struggled with many aspects of flying but persevered to finally solo at around fifty hours. (I am not suggesting his age was an issue) He recognised that he may never have the confidence to actually go anywhere if he did eventually pass.
My point is it did not matter to him! He was flying and that was all that he cared about. (He did eventually qualify.)
D.O.
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Crash One - when I say ages , I dont literally mean that as "a long time " , some folk are lucky and can do the ppl in the absolute minimum number of hours specified , some can't ...that's all I meant .... we aren't all the same ,and have different individual abilities ..... I'm not being patronising at all 
.... I'm past the minimum number of hours required in my learning and still heading toward my GST at some point in the future at my ripe old age thanks very much !!! When I feel ready and my instructors feel the same ! Its taking me some time but I enjoy every minute of it ...thats what I meant to convey
.... I'm past the minimum number of hours required in my learning and still heading toward my GST at some point in the future at my ripe old age thanks very much !!! When I feel ready and my instructors feel the same ! Its taking me some time but I enjoy every minute of it ...thats what I meant to convey
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Hmnn... this ageism thing turns up in unexpected places.
My 13 year old son (four flights in total on the ATL, and massive hours on MS Flt Sim) now insists that I am an awkward old git, and he should always fly as safety pilot in case I become suddenly senile.
Cheeky little so & so
My 13 year old son (four flights in total on the ATL, and massive hours on MS Flt Sim) now insists that I am an awkward old git, and he should always fly as safety pilot in case I become suddenly senile.
Cheeky little so & so
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I seem to have upset a couple of you. For that I sincerly apologise.
I have however come across ageism a lot, perhaps because I am not a "pipe & slippers" type myself & mixing with younger people with similar interests I expect to be treated as just as capable as anyone else. I also find a lot of disrespect for the capabilities & experience of those of us who have been round the block a while. My son in law falls into that slot. And as mentioned earlier this comes across as "no young whipper snapper is going to teach me". Which it really is not. The suggestion of a safety pilot got up my nose considerably.
So I am sorry if I have come across as agressive bull headed but as v-tail pointed out. Why was the original question asked? Yes we are all different. I took 65 hrs total at the age of 66. But if I were to suggest (which I didn't) that I think the navigation bit was a bit "padded out" (25+ hrs of it) & I know the area, ex gliders, what are the instructors among you going to say? I never got lost, but more to the point, I was never "made lost" by an instructor.
Sorry I have such strong views on the subject.
Mixture.
I agree with that, but then I can cite at least two incidents of flight safety issues by people in their 20s/30s.
I have however come across ageism a lot, perhaps because I am not a "pipe & slippers" type myself & mixing with younger people with similar interests I expect to be treated as just as capable as anyone else. I also find a lot of disrespect for the capabilities & experience of those of us who have been round the block a while. My son in law falls into that slot. And as mentioned earlier this comes across as "no young whipper snapper is going to teach me". Which it really is not. The suggestion of a safety pilot got up my nose considerably.
So I am sorry if I have come across as agressive bull headed but as v-tail pointed out. Why was the original question asked? Yes we are all different. I took 65 hrs total at the age of 66. But if I were to suggest (which I didn't) that I think the navigation bit was a bit "padded out" (25+ hrs of it) & I know the area, ex gliders, what are the instructors among you going to say? I never got lost, but more to the point, I was never "made lost" by an instructor.
Sorry I have such strong views on the subject.
The fact remains that fundamental flight safety issues were demonstrated on the two flights to which I refer, and I would not hesitate to putting advanced age down as one of the major contributing factors. And this is not only my opinion, but also of others who were present on the flights concerned who were over the age of 60 !
I agree with that, but then I can cite at least two incidents of flight safety issues by people in their 20s/30s.
Last edited by Crash one; 3rd Sep 2011 at 17:16.