Training aircraft

[Piper.Classique]

fly th

You seem to have at least 900 good reasons for wanting to fly the 150. As either is fine for training I suggest you present your good reasons to the CFI.

[Pilot DAR]

the level flight attitude "picture" you will see out of the windshield is different

Well, I suppose, but if that rather small difference is going to affect your demonstration of flying skill for more than one circuit, I think that you have a lot to worry about. I think the condition of the foam in the seat cushion will have more affect (or heaven help you, differnet C of G location, or an adjustable height pilot's seat!). Bear in mind that there are two different cowling arrangements on 150's, and they vary noticably in the view over the nose too.

The cowling is different on the 152, because of the need to conceal the large diameter starter ring gear of the Lycoming (of all Lycomings), which is not a part of the design of the Continental. Thus the cowls for the Continental powered aircraft can generally be a bit more sleak near the propeller/spinner.

I suggest that pilots need not fixate on such minor details (or the precise view out the front) that much. Learn to fly the plane seeing the forest, rather than the trees, and adapt to little differences. It will prepare you better for transition to other types in the future. There are some types where there is no airframe visible ahead of the windshield, and although not common, pilots should be prepared to fly the plane by the big picture, rather than a precise airframe feature as a reference.

If a very precise field of view out the windshield is vital, the seats will be very adjustable in several directions, and there will be some kind of cockpit indicator for pilot and copilot eye height. 100 series Cessnas do not have this....

[Pull what]

There is no excuse for "loosing control" after coming (or remaining) airborne with full flaps.

With respect there are plenty of excuses, one is inexperience, a fairly common understandable problem which always accompanies most PPL holders (hence the need for even more meticulous training & supervision). The other is lack of adequate training.

There can be no better example of both than in the Staines Trident disaster.

Quote from the accident report

If one could have asked the crew (3 pilots) at 127 seconds after TO why they were not flying a recovery they would have surely said, 'a recovery from what'?

Sadly 118 people had to die to prove the need for more experience and departure stall training

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR

Well, I suppose, but if that rather small difference is going to affect your demonstration of flying skill for more than one circuit, I think that you have a lot to worry about. I think the condition of the foam in the seat cushion will have more affect (or heaven help you, differnet C of G location, or an adjustable height pilot's seat!). Bear in mind that there are two different cowling arrangements on 150's, and they vary noticably in the view over the nose too.

The cowling is different on the 152, because of the need to conceal the large diameter starter ring gear of the Lycoming (of all Lycomings), which is not a part of the design of the Continental. Thus the cowls for the Continental powered aircraft can generally be a bit more sleak near the propeller/spinner.

I suggest that pilots need not fixate on such minor details (or the precise view out the front) that much. Learn to fly the plane seeing the forest, rather than the trees, and adapt to little differences. It will prepare you better for transition to other types in the future. There are some types where there is no airframe visible ahead of the windshield, and although not common, pilots should be prepared to fly the plane by the big picture, rather than a precise airframe feature as a reference.

If a very precise field of view out the windshield is vital, the seats will be very adjustable in several directions, and there will be some kind of cockpit indicator for pilot and copilot eye height. 100 series Cessnas do not have this....

I can only go on what was my personal experience teaching at a school that had five C 152's and one C 150. Your attitude is typical of experienced pilots who have never done any ab initio instruction.

Of course to you the difference in sight picture is trivial but I can assure you that is not the case for somebody with only a couple of hours of experience. You do raise another good point that is the importance of seat position and cushion height. I make a point of setting the student up in a consistent position. I am often surprised that even at the CPL level many students do not understand the advantages of setting and maintaining a consistent seat position.

There is a reason that most large aircraft have a height of eye device that allows pilots to always set the seat to the same position.