Cheapest way to own your own plane
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I can't tell you about a C150, but I bought a 1961 C172 in Oct 2009, so I am just just completing 2 years ownership. I paid £17k for it, and had to spend about £2500 on initial repairs, (I knew it needed a new cylinder and various other bits and pieces so that was figured into the price). The engine is lowish hours, but more than 12 years since major overhaul so running on condition, (hence I could not lease it to a school even if I wanted to).
Fixed (ish) costs...Hangarage, (expensive S/E England) is £300 pcm (outside parking would be half), Insurance c. 100hrs/year, £995, Planned maintenance (annual and 1 x 50 hr check each year), has been about £8k/year (mainly because, even though "planned," unexpected things turn up at routine checks in old machines). Unplanned maintenance, i.e. things have gone wrong and needed fixing, have cost me another £1700.
Variable costs.....Avgas 36lph wheels up to wheels down. Oil, 1 lt every 7 or 8hours, landing fees, (lots).
If it was a 150, I would imagine that having 2/3 of the cylinders it would probably have cost about 2/3 of the maintenance and used about 2/3 of the fuel.
Total cost per hour, wet, including VAT, but excluding landing fees has been £196 per hour chock to chock.
I am sure that if I had bought a much newer machine I would have had to spend a lot less on maintenance, but if this aircraft needs a new engine, I can scrap the airframe, walk away, and not lose more than the 17K I paid for it.
I wanted a Cof A machine as I have a night and IMC rating and do occasionally use them, particularly as I use the aircraft regularly to get myself to work, and want as much flexibility as possible. If I did not, I would have gone for a permit machine.
Hope that helps.
Fixed (ish) costs...Hangarage, (expensive S/E England) is £300 pcm (outside parking would be half), Insurance c. 100hrs/year, £995, Planned maintenance (annual and 1 x 50 hr check each year), has been about £8k/year (mainly because, even though "planned," unexpected things turn up at routine checks in old machines). Unplanned maintenance, i.e. things have gone wrong and needed fixing, have cost me another £1700.
Variable costs.....Avgas 36lph wheels up to wheels down. Oil, 1 lt every 7 or 8hours, landing fees, (lots).
If it was a 150, I would imagine that having 2/3 of the cylinders it would probably have cost about 2/3 of the maintenance and used about 2/3 of the fuel.
Total cost per hour, wet, including VAT, but excluding landing fees has been £196 per hour chock to chock.
I am sure that if I had bought a much newer machine I would have had to spend a lot less on maintenance, but if this aircraft needs a new engine, I can scrap the airframe, walk away, and not lose more than the 17K I paid for it.
I wanted a Cof A machine as I have a night and IMC rating and do occasionally use them, particularly as I use the aircraft regularly to get myself to work, and want as much flexibility as possible. If I did not, I would have gone for a permit machine.
Hope that helps.
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I don't know why everyone includes costs yet to happen when they talk about aircraft ownership. The engine overhaul at 2000hrs is only a recommend, you can, if all is good, probably fly that for another 1000hrs. Also, how do you even know you're going to own the airplane when it comes to overhaul? Don't count your chickens until they've hatched.
Nobody would dream of including the re-spray cost on a car or have a fund for an engine overhaul 20 years down the road, or include the service costs, so why do it for an aircraft? Count the fuel, the oil, insurance and the hangarage. The rest are variable costs that you can include after the fact, not budget for.
Nobody would dream of including the re-spray cost on a car or have a fund for an engine overhaul 20 years down the road, or include the service costs, so why do it for an aircraft? Count the fuel, the oil, insurance and the hangarage. The rest are variable costs that you can include after the fact, not budget for.
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I understand where you are coming from Adam but a car engine is no where near the same amount of money nor is a service (annual )
I think that unless you can comfortably write a cheque for an engine at any time
maybe it is wise to put aside look at it as a rainy day fund sell the plane before needed then you have extra money for a new toy
I think that unless you can comfortably write a cheque for an engine at any time
maybe it is wise to put aside look at it as a rainy day fund sell the plane before needed then you have extra money for a new toy
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Much of the lower cost of an LAA type comes from both the ability of the average LAA owner to DIY, and from the legal ability to do so to a much bigger extent than on a CofA type.
So before recommending going down that route one needs to establish the appetite the punter has for getting his hands dirty.
So before recommending going down that route one needs to establish the appetite the punter has for getting his hands dirty.
There are some wealthy people out there still who are happy to keep paying for their C f A types. If they can afford it, why not!?
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I think that unless you can comfortably write a cheque for an engine at any time
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£16,000 is the bottom of the market even for a C152 so the next annual inspection will almost certainly cost a few thousand
NS
Adam,
pardon me but I am with IO540 on this one. I've seen too many airplanes sitting in a corner without an engine because the owners could not afford to bring up the money for the overhaul, either because it is unscheduled, that is way before the 2000 hour TBO or because they flew happily up to 2500 hours on condition and then got the shock of their lifetimes when they heard the price of the overhaul once it was no longer avoidable.
If you have enough on the side to pay for a new engine any time, you are ok to fly without an engine fund, otherwise, I'd strongly recommend it. Way I did it is to get the airplane it's own bank account where all costs are paid in and out of. The about £ for the engine fund go into a separate subsection, so they don't get used for anything else. I have a brand newly overhauled engine in mine now, but I don't want ever to get in the situation where my plane sits on the ground because some £20k bill comes up which I don't have the means to afford.... there are enough "project" airplanes out there on avbuyer and planecheck for that very reason.
pardon me but I am with IO540 on this one. I've seen too many airplanes sitting in a corner without an engine because the owners could not afford to bring up the money for the overhaul, either because it is unscheduled, that is way before the 2000 hour TBO or because they flew happily up to 2500 hours on condition and then got the shock of their lifetimes when they heard the price of the overhaul once it was no longer avoidable.
If you have enough on the side to pay for a new engine any time, you are ok to fly without an engine fund, otherwise, I'd strongly recommend it. Way I did it is to get the airplane it's own bank account where all costs are paid in and out of. The about £ for the engine fund go into a separate subsection, so they don't get used for anything else. I have a brand newly overhauled engine in mine now, but I don't want ever to get in the situation where my plane sits on the ground because some £20k bill comes up which I don't have the means to afford.... there are enough "project" airplanes out there on avbuyer and planecheck for that very reason.
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FleetFlyer wrote::
As the LAA permit renewal is now £190 (£180 last year) and then you hsae to add the inspectors costs (£100 to £200) - you can probablty say Permit renewal £400.
I would also like to get hangarage at £100 a month - probably double that for a reasonable hangar with power, lighting etc.
Permit renewal is around £100/year. Hull insurance is £1400/year and hangarage is £1200/yea
I would also like to get hangarage at £100 a month - probably double that for a reasonable hangar with power, lighting etc.
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Recent professional ground up restoration of a 1946 vintage plane - £19,000. Effectively a new plane. No maintenance costs above routine for a good few years (Hopefully 
)
£190 LAA permit
£125 Inspection
Insurance £750 (full flying)
Hangar £100 pm
18ltrs ph in fuel
Private strip in Berkshire
)£190 LAA permit
£125 Inspection
Insurance £750 (full flying)
Hangar £100 pm
18ltrs ph in fuel
Private strip in Berkshire
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Just to inject some real numbers.
For an MCR01
Permit renewal £140
Inspectors cost – expenses – say £100 a year.
Personal hangar with power and light £1000 per year (midlands) on 600m strip
I am sure you could pay more if you wanted…
Rod1
For an MCR01
Permit renewal £140
Inspectors cost – expenses – say £100 a year.
Personal hangar with power and light £1000 per year (midlands) on 600m strip
I am sure you could pay more if you wanted…
Rod1
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The bottom line is that you must be capable of writing a cheque for a new engine, at any time.
Obviously you hope you don't have to, and statistically speaking that normally works out
But the value of a plane - whatever it is - hangs 100.000000% on its continued airworthiness, and if you are unable to maintain that, it is worth scrap.
Anybody ignoring this is deluding themselves.
In the piston game, you need to be able to bankroll "suprises" of say 20k-30k. In the turboprop game, the figure is 200k-300k.
Obviously you hope you don't have to, and statistically speaking that normally works out
But the value of a plane - whatever it is - hangs 100.000000% on its continued airworthiness, and if you are unable to maintain that, it is worth scrap.
Anybody ignoring this is deluding themselves.
In the piston game, you need to be able to bankroll "suprises" of say 20k-30k. In the turboprop game, the figure is 200k-300k.
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The bottom line is that you must be capable of writing a cheque for a new engine, at any time.
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many LAA types can have their engines repaired under the LAA system for the cost of the bits and not a lot more.
But, seriously, you merely underline the point I constantly make which is that most of the cost saving of the LAA route derives strongly from an army of people willing to work cheaply or for nothing.
You can do the same on the CofA scene. In theory, I can do my own Annual, get a qualified engineer to inspect and sign off the work (G- or N-reg equally), and buy him a beer by way of payment
Knowing the right people makes far more difference than anything else, in aircraft ownership.
I don't think most people can afford to work like that. If you needed a new engine you'd obviously have to fund it, but it might be a case of being grounded for a while.
I think that almost every such case will end up a hangar queen, or be sold at scrap value. And it's not just little planes; most of today's ageing twin piston wreckage is worth only the engine TBOs.
After all, plenty of leisure activities are like that, e.g. a crashed racing car or a sick horse requiring massive vet bills.
A horse.... now you take me back to my horse-mad ex wife
I don't think vet bills are often more than 4 figures and usually there is the husband to cover that. That's why horsey women like to marry successful businessmen And can't you insure really valuable horses? I know you can get vet insurance.
Moderator
In the piston game, you need to be able to bankroll "suprises" of say 20k-30k.
Aviation can be done econmoically if you work at it, and keep up with the maintenance. Letting things go, will cost you more later (and could be unsafe in the mean time). Maintaining airplanes themselves does not cost money, it's paying the people who maintain the plane, and build the parts and materials you need. Like any of us, the people employed to keep planes flying would like to make a fair wage - would anyone deny them that?
I people would stop suing each other when planes had problems, or crashed, we'd be paying for a lot less product liabiltiy insurance, and fewer lawyers - then costs would come down!
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RE ROD and the DYN MCR01
How much (if you dont mind me asking) was the kit for the above plane (i presume its a home build from what google gives me)
Or did you buy it completed?
Or did you buy it completed?
Last edited by benppl; 9th Aug 2011 at 15:54. Reason: Double post. Wont let me quote
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This really has been done to death in thread after thread.
The reality must be that if you have to ask the question you probably can't really afford it!
As an outright buy though the cheapest aircraft will be one old enough to be interesting yet viable as a regular mount, but not young enough to be on a C of A. So, things like early Cubs, Aeroncas, Luscombes and Jodels will be cheap to buy - £12,000 say for a Jodel, perhaps £22,000 for a Cub - on a Permit to Fly and some will run on mogas (all will run on 91UL when it arrives). A rotax or Jaburu will probably be a lot more expensive to buy - £60k+ for a Pioneer, Sportcruiser, MCR, Tecnam etc, but may be a little cheaper to run than the older permit stuff, certainly in terms of litres per hour and of course they will knock a Jodel into a cocked hat when it comes to cruise speed (the Sportcruiser is a bit of a poor performer in that department though). At that price however you have to allow for a fair chunk of depreciation - the benefit of an old Cub or Jodel is that there is little depreciation if it is correctly maintained.
The most expensive option is without a doubt a new C of A type followed by an old dog of a C of a type. Let £8k maintenance per year for a C172 be a warning to you. If you really want to fly one of those get into a decent group. In fact, unless you are flying over say 75 hours a year a group makes a huge amount of sense, as even a 1940s vintage C65 engine is going to be costly if it goes wrong and being able to share that cost is hugely reassuring.
The reality must be that if you have to ask the question you probably can't really afford it!
As an outright buy though the cheapest aircraft will be one old enough to be interesting yet viable as a regular mount, but not young enough to be on a C of A. So, things like early Cubs, Aeroncas, Luscombes and Jodels will be cheap to buy - £12,000 say for a Jodel, perhaps £22,000 for a Cub - on a Permit to Fly and some will run on mogas (all will run on 91UL when it arrives). A rotax or Jaburu will probably be a lot more expensive to buy - £60k+ for a Pioneer, Sportcruiser, MCR, Tecnam etc, but may be a little cheaper to run than the older permit stuff, certainly in terms of litres per hour and of course they will knock a Jodel into a cocked hat when it comes to cruise speed (the Sportcruiser is a bit of a poor performer in that department though). At that price however you have to allow for a fair chunk of depreciation - the benefit of an old Cub or Jodel is that there is little depreciation if it is correctly maintained.
The most expensive option is without a doubt a new C of A type followed by an old dog of a C of a type. Let £8k maintenance per year for a C172 be a warning to you. If you really want to fly one of those get into a decent group. In fact, unless you are flying over say 75 hours a year a group makes a huge amount of sense, as even a 1940s vintage C65 engine is going to be costly if it goes wrong and being able to share that cost is hugely reassuring.
