Military basing announcement: implications for GA in eastern Scotland
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Whatever the merits of the case it is vital that a mutually happy outcome is achieved to the noise litter and pissing (and wind turbine) issues because Fife's importance to GA in east central Scotland has just gone up significantly with the threats to the future of Kirknewton.
Does the parachute club not have a toilet???? If not it's surely not beyond the wit of either Fife Airport Ltd or the club to provide one.
Personally if I was about to go parachute jumping I'd be in serious need of a toilet....
NS
Does the parachute club not have a toilet???? If not it's surely not beyond the wit of either Fife Airport Ltd or the club to provide one.
Personally if I was about to go parachute jumping I'd be in serious need of a toilet....
NS
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The drop pilots do make an effort to minimise noise, but it is still the noisiest ac based at Fife.
I stay 10nm away but can hear it all the way to FL100.
D.O.
I stay 10nm away but can hear it all the way to FL100.
D.O.
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Yes there are toilets on site ive been there and seen then. I think theres a bit of exaggeration going on.
Dont overfil, you must have some exceptional hearing. Are you sure its the Fife based aircraft?
Floppy
Dont overfil, you must have some exceptional hearing. Are you sure its the Fife based aircraft?
Floppy
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floppyjock,
When the wind is from the east it's ole' thunderbird, when it's from the west it's Strathallan.
I said I could hear it from 10 miles, I didn't say it was a nusance for me.
Portmoak also operate a Pawnee with a 4 blade prop nearby but it is very quiet.
D.O.
When the wind is from the east it's ole' thunderbird, when it's from the west it's Strathallan.
I said I could hear it from 10 miles, I didn't say it was a nusance for me.
Portmoak also operate a Pawnee with a 4 blade prop nearby but it is very quiet.
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Northsouth
I wouldnt panic just yet. Just because Kirknewton is being made into an army base does not mean that flying will stop. You never know it may well secure the flying activities there. The army has its own gliding association and its quote:- " a recognised sport and approved Adventurous Training activity to all Servicemen ".
There are also several army camps with flying activities on them ie Middle Wallop, Netheravon, Upavon, Sennelager and Gutersloh (Germany) and Kingsfield (Cyprus)
Im sure as we write here there are already people in the aviation business rubbing their hands together at the posible prospect of moving into RAF Leuchars. There one little Irish fella i can think about.
Floppy
I wouldnt panic just yet. Just because Kirknewton is being made into an army base does not mean that flying will stop. You never know it may well secure the flying activities there. The army has its own gliding association and its quote:- " a recognised sport and approved Adventurous Training activity to all Servicemen ".
There are also several army camps with flying activities on them ie Middle Wallop, Netheravon, Upavon, Sennelager and Gutersloh (Germany) and Kingsfield (Cyprus)
Im sure as we write here there are already people in the aviation business rubbing their hands together at the posible prospect of moving into RAF Leuchars. There one little Irish fella i can think about.
Floppy
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Dont overfil
Point taken Im the same. I can pick out an aircraft miles away before I can see it. Guess its a pilot thing. The man in the street wouldnt bat an eyelid.
You must live in the Kinross area then.
Floppy
Point taken Im the same. I can pick out an aircraft miles away before I can see it. Guess its a pilot thing. The man in the street wouldnt bat an eyelid.
You must live in the Kinross area then.
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When Kingsmuir was operating the drop aircraft could be heard all the way up to FL100 - largely because it was still in sight. I suspect it will be the same now at Glenrothes unless the operating procedures have changed.
Glenrothes has some pleasant facilities, I've not visited since the parachuting arrived, but I suspect they would not be terribly welcome in the lounge. the general behaviour of people buoyed up on adrenaline is never very good but a lot of that has to be down to the way the operation is run.
Hopefully it can all be resolved, whilst I don't think much of parachuting I have no desire to stop other people enjoying it. They just have to realise there are bigger issues in play. The sites floppy lists as having flying activities carrying on are very difficult for a civil GA aircraft to visit....
Glenrothes has some pleasant facilities, I've not visited since the parachuting arrived, but I suspect they would not be terribly welcome in the lounge. the general behaviour of people buoyed up on adrenaline is never very good but a lot of that has to be down to the way the operation is run.
Hopefully it can all be resolved, whilst I don't think much of parachuting I have no desire to stop other people enjoying it. They just have to realise there are bigger issues in play. The sites floppy lists as having flying activities carrying on are very difficult for a civil GA aircraft to visit....
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floppyjock:
I hope you're right, but I can't see it. Kirknewton is a very small site - the airfield is only about 1 square kilometre and they sold off the old Ritchie Camp land to the west some time ago, so all the new facilities will have to go on that 1 sq km. By contrast:
Middle Wallop is the HQ of the AAC - it's whole raison d'etre is aviation
Netheravon doesn't have to accommodate large non-aviation Army units since there are loads of nearby bases for them at Tidworth, Bulford, Larkhill etc. Also, the airfield is surrounded by vast expanses of MoD land so is not constrained.
Upavon's in a similar position to Netheravon.
Sennelager is a vast training area for armoured units as well as lots of barracks so has plenty space to squeeze in a few gliders.
Gutersloh was orginally a fast jet airfield with a 2250m runway and is now a major AAC helicopter base so aviation's still a significant part of its raison d'etre.
As I say, I hope you're right, but the geography would suggest otherwise.
NS
Just because Kirknewton is being made into an army base does not mean that flying will stop. You never know it may well secure the flying activities there...There are also several army camps with flying activities on them ie Middle Wallop, Netheravon, Upavon, Sennelager and Gutersloh (Germany) and Kingsfield (Cyprus)
Middle Wallop is the HQ of the AAC - it's whole raison d'etre is aviation
Netheravon doesn't have to accommodate large non-aviation Army units since there are loads of nearby bases for them at Tidworth, Bulford, Larkhill etc. Also, the airfield is surrounded by vast expanses of MoD land so is not constrained.
Upavon's in a similar position to Netheravon.
Sennelager is a vast training area for armoured units as well as lots of barracks so has plenty space to squeeze in a few gliders.
Gutersloh was orginally a fast jet airfield with a 2250m runway and is now a major AAC helicopter base so aviation's still a significant part of its raison d'etre.
As I say, I hope you're right, but the geography would suggest otherwise.
NS
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North South
Just to answer some of what you said.
Middlewallop has a flying club.
Netheravon Ive seen quite a few civilian aircraft using it.
Upavon has a gliding club or used too.
Sennelager is the base for the JSPC / RAPA parachuting.
Gutersloh is also know as Flughaven Gutersloh which corporate jets operate from.
I dont know the setup at Kirknewton so can really comment on the geography of the place.
I guess what im trying to say is just because is going to be and army camp does not mean it will put an end to aviation.
Floppy
Just to answer some of what you said.
Middlewallop has a flying club.
Netheravon Ive seen quite a few civilian aircraft using it.
Upavon has a gliding club or used too.
Sennelager is the base for the JSPC / RAPA parachuting.
Gutersloh is also know as Flughaven Gutersloh which corporate jets operate from.
I dont know the setup at Kirknewton so can really comment on the geography of the place.
I guess what im trying to say is just because is going to be and army camp does not mean it will put an end to aviation.
Floppy
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gasax
It might interest you to know that the parachute business was invited by Fife airport operators to relocate there. This was to make the airport more viable.
The Courier - Glenrothes airport's future in doubt
The parachute business hire a large hangar, buy more fuel in one weekend that you probably buy in a year and provide a healthy profit in the Tipsy Nipper. The parachute club booking office is also run by the flying club so theres another income. There was also talk of moving a flight training to Dundee at one time to accomodate the parachuting as that provided a bigger income for the airport. Dont think that has happened and they worked round it.
Your right about GA aircraft getting into of the sites i mentioned but if you think about it. Would you want to visit any of them as most are in the middle of no where.
Like i said army does not necessary mean anti aviation.
Floppy
It might interest you to know that the parachute business was invited by Fife airport operators to relocate there. This was to make the airport more viable.
The Courier - Glenrothes airport's future in doubt
The parachute business hire a large hangar, buy more fuel in one weekend that you probably buy in a year and provide a healthy profit in the Tipsy Nipper. The parachute club booking office is also run by the flying club so theres another income. There was also talk of moving a flight training to Dundee at one time to accomodate the parachuting as that provided a bigger income for the airport. Dont think that has happened and they worked round it.
Your right about GA aircraft getting into of the sites i mentioned but if you think about it. Would you want to visit any of them as most are in the middle of no where.
Like i said army does not necessary mean anti aviation.
Floppy
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One does wonder however that there may be opportunity for others here; will microlighting sites like Thornhill, Stathaven, East Fortune, Midlem etc. see an opportunity and expand to accept Group A operations? 
Smithy
Smithy
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floppyjock:
Yep, I totally understand all that. Lots of big army camps with gliding or GA activity. What I'm saying is that Kirknewton can't be compared to those because your comparators are either (a) places where the military aviation requirement means that these are really primarily military aviation sites, not military camps that have made room for civil GA, or (b) vast sites with lots of MoD land next to them on to which they could expand if necessary - Kirknewton's a tiny site with no MoD land around it, so all the new Army facilities will have to be put on the airfield.
NS
Middlewallop has a flying club [etc]
NS
Last edited by NorthSouth; 25th Jul 2011 at 21:07.
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Cap'n Smithy:
Surrounded by very noise intolerant neighbours and miles from Edinburgh
Rough as old boots and (despite what some websites claim) miles from Edinburgh
Sadly, mired in conflicting multiple ownership which prevents any viable runway being achieved
Barely 500m grass and miles from Edinburgh
NS
Thornhill
Strathaven
East Fortune
Midlem
NS
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Im not familiar with Kirknewton so i,ll have to take your word for it. You never know we might have a change of government or get involved in another war and the cutbacks may never happen.
Floppy
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Thornhill is a swamp unless George has invested any money in improving it since I based a plane there.
Strathaven has a very wet patch in the middle, almost a stream when very wet, that was there in the 60s when I used to glide there.
There is potentially an excellent GA field just to the west of Edinburgh and to the north of Kirknewton but the monopoly that owns it is just not interested. There are many of us who remember what it used to be like!!
Strathaven has a very wet patch in the middle, almost a stream when very wet, that was there in the 60s when I used to glide there.
There is potentially an excellent GA field just to the west of Edinburgh and to the north of Kirknewton but the monopoly that owns it is just not interested. There are many of us who remember what it used to be like!!
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Capt Smithy:
Strathaven welcomes any GA that cares to visit - we have a 172 from Colonsay and the Rallya from Prestwick that are regular visitors. Plus a Sportscrusier, a Robin DR400 and a Kitfox based here. (We also have the Prestwick Eurostar which was bought by one of our members - but it has now been re-registered as a microlight)
And of course we have had George in in his Islander, and Boyd-thing in his Cessna Caravan.
We have the land but don't have the money to extend the runway, nor do we intend to stock AvGas. So in that sense we are "GA unfriendly" - but the reality is it just does not make financial sense.
In my opinion, the world is moving to the Rotax 912 powered model - and that is what we serve. Light aircraft or microlight. (I even like the look of the Technam twin with 912s)
North South:
Rough as old boots - yes, some of the runway is and, hopefully, after spending £700,000 at Strathaven this year, there will be some cash left over/some cash coming in from the new hangar to tackle that . But there are good bits and not so bad bits, you just have to get to know the place. The chap who came in with a Piper Cub and pronounced it "unsafe" needs some retraining! This is what Cubs were built for!
Yes, we are miles from Edinburgh. But still less than an hour's drive and with quality affordable hangars. (just ask how much space in the new hangar being built at Cumbernauld is!)
OldPilot55:
"Thornhill is a swamp unless George has invested any money in improving it since I based a plane there."
George has - he has spent a fortune on Perfo!
"Strathaven has a very wet patch in the middle, almost a stream when very wet, that was there in the 60s when I used to glide there."
Yes, there is a wet patch - but no longer a stream! We have never lost a days flying in four years due to the state of the runway - except when covered by snow. Better record than many grass airfields.
Pprune is a rumour network, not a history book!
*****
Apologies to all if I appear grumpy - I am working 12 to 14 hour days at the moment with a busier than ever flying school and a massive construction project, plus the aftermath of last year's disaster.
Strathaven is really going places - may not be the place many of you would like to go! - and recollections of what it was like in the 1960s remind us of how far we have come.
There are four photographs on the wall in the clubhouse - of the airfield in early 1960, of the airfield in 2005, the airfield in 2009 and an artist's impression of it in 2012. Come and have a look. I think it is bl**dy impressive what has been done.
Strathaven welcomes any GA that cares to visit - we have a 172 from Colonsay and the Rallya from Prestwick that are regular visitors. Plus a Sportscrusier, a Robin DR400 and a Kitfox based here. (We also have the Prestwick Eurostar which was bought by one of our members - but it has now been re-registered as a microlight)
And of course we have had George in in his Islander, and Boyd-thing in his Cessna Caravan.
We have the land but don't have the money to extend the runway, nor do we intend to stock AvGas. So in that sense we are "GA unfriendly" - but the reality is it just does not make financial sense.
In my opinion, the world is moving to the Rotax 912 powered model - and that is what we serve. Light aircraft or microlight. (I even like the look of the Technam twin with 912s)
North South:
Rough as old boots - yes, some of the runway is and, hopefully, after spending £700,000 at Strathaven this year, there will be some cash left over/some cash coming in from the new hangar to tackle that . But there are good bits and not so bad bits, you just have to get to know the place. The chap who came in with a Piper Cub and pronounced it "unsafe" needs some retraining! This is what Cubs were built for!
Yes, we are miles from Edinburgh. But still less than an hour's drive and with quality affordable hangars. (just ask how much space in the new hangar being built at Cumbernauld is!)
OldPilot55:
"Thornhill is a swamp unless George has invested any money in improving it since I based a plane there."
George has - he has spent a fortune on Perfo!
"Strathaven has a very wet patch in the middle, almost a stream when very wet, that was there in the 60s when I used to glide there."
Yes, there is a wet patch - but no longer a stream! We have never lost a days flying in four years due to the state of the runway - except when covered by snow. Better record than many grass airfields.
Pprune is a rumour network, not a history book!
*****
Apologies to all if I appear grumpy - I am working 12 to 14 hour days at the moment with a busier than ever flying school and a massive construction project, plus the aftermath of last year's disaster.
Strathaven is really going places - may not be the place many of you would like to go! - and recollections of what it was like in the 1960s remind us of how far we have come.
There are four photographs on the wall in the clubhouse - of the airfield in early 1960, of the airfield in 2005, the airfield in 2009 and an artist's impression of it in 2012. Come and have a look. I think it is bl**dy impressive what has been done.
