Can you call another A/C?

[Mr Cessna]

Called another A/C in flight to ask for position and altitude today whilst solo and radio operator said: ''you cannot call another aircraft''? I haven't taken R/T exam yet but what did he mean?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Which ATC unit were you in contact with? If it was busy I can well understand them objecting. If it was quiet it would have been good procedure to ask ATC if you could contact another aircraft.

[Mr Cessna]

Seething and there was only one other A/C in the circuit????

[vanHorck]

Lets be clear: was this the Seething radio operator r was it the other plane's radio operator?

[Mr Cessna]

myself and the other aircraft were both on the seething freq. and i asked the guy for his position?

[Mr Cessna]

I was just inbound to seething

[Mr Cessna]

ok sorry my fault i shall explain further...

I was joining and other aircraft had just joined and when i was overhead i called G-aaaa can i have your position please because i had not heard him call downwind etc. just after the other A/C gave me his position the A/G radio guy said: YOU CANNOT CALL ANOTHER A/C IN FLIGHT!!!!

YOU NEED PERMISSION????

[GaryS]

Since when can A/G operators tell you what to do??

[Mr Cessna]

that is exactly what i thought!!!

Can R/T or rules of the air prevent you from contacting another A/C in flight??

Strange?

[GaryS]

On a busy frequency I could understand the controller being upset, but a A/G operator TELLING you that you cannot contact another aircraft?

Your the pilot and you decided what was best.

A/G offer advice and thats it.

[Johnm]

A/G and FISO or ATC basically do what it says on the tin. A/G not A/A therefore. However if the A/G frequency isn't busy you could say "GAAAA to GBBBB say position" and no-one should take exception since you are the pilot in command responsible for the safety of your aircraft. If it's FISO or ATC you should ask the ground station to find out for you as a courtesy.

[Danscowpie]

The R/T Operator is wrong and has no right to give such an instruction, or any instruction at any time.

You are quite within your rights to do as you did, although it does suprise me that you encountered such a problem at Seething - everyone there is normally extremely professional and accomodating, whether they are pilots, radio operators, engineers or bacon butty makers.

I've never across such a problem with them.

[vanHorck]

Perhaps A/G prefers low wings...... But yes, you call the shorts, certainly not an A/G operator....

[Mr Cessna]

This has helped bundles... many thanks

[Dan the weegie]

SoCal,

Most people solo before passing the RT practical.
Just had a look at CAP 413, no mention of not being able to talk A/C to A/C.
Wouldn't press the issue though as the A/G people tend also to be the people giving you coffee and fuelling your plane .

flying is full of people that know everything you just have to learn to let them alone.

[mrmum]

Pre-solo exams

There is no (UK) legal requirement to have passed any exams before going solo while training for a JAA-PPL (A). However it is almost universally "required" by schools and instructors that students pass the aviation law, by reason of being sensible, duly diligent or simply covering your a**e.

[stiknruda]

Posts 13, 14 and 15 are all pertinent. You have a PM, too - it's basically posts 13-15 as I'm fairly local to Seething and aware of their RT usage!!

Stik

[bingofuel]

Perhaps the first call should have been ' Seething radio can you give me the position of other circuit traffic?'

That way, it keeps the A/G operator happy, and also checks for other traffic you may have been unaware of. If no response then blind calls and request position reports yourself.

Just my comment on what I would have done.

[mur007]

Bingofuel - as he is an a/g operator he cannot give out that info. I have to admit, my understanding was that aircraft could not call each other in that way but then I fly from an atc field so maybe things are not as rigid at a/g fields?

[mrmum]

Traffic info from A/G Radio operators

Yes they can give traffic information if requested to do so

Air/Ground (A/G) - A two way communication between an aircraft and a ground station in which the ground operator may only pass advisory information regarding the situation local to the aerodrome.

See also CAP 413, chapter 4, pages 32-35

5 Aerodrome Air/Ground Communication Service Phraseology

5.1.1 ..... It is not only the means by which information is passed but it also assists pilots in maintaining an awareness of other traffic in their vicinity

5.2.3 An AG radio station operator is not necessarily able to view any part of the aerodrome or surrounding airspace. Traffic information provided by an AG radio station operator is therefore based primarily on reports made by other pilots. Information provided by an AG radio station operator may be used to assist a pilot in making decisions