The Fear of Falling????
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I have a fear of heights. Especially when I'm physically connected to whatever I'm standing on. Famously, this is why I never got higher than the second floor of the Eiffel Tower or why I feel really uncomfortable looking out over edges of cliffs, buildings, whatever.
When I fly less so, as I'm disconnected from earth. But, I have to admit having flown both Helicopter and FW, that the helicopter gave me that uncomnfortbale feeling when we flew high. Anything say above a 1000ft and I felt very vulnerable. Don't have the same problem with FW, but if I start thinking about structural or wing spar failure, it comes! So I try not to.
It's my greatest fear in flying - catastrophic structural failure and not having control. Thankfully, it's rare.
When I fly less so, as I'm disconnected from earth. But, I have to admit having flown both Helicopter and FW, that the helicopter gave me that uncomnfortbale feeling when we flew high. Anything say above a 1000ft and I felt very vulnerable. Don't have the same problem with FW, but if I start thinking about structural or wing spar failure, it comes! So I try not to.
It's my greatest fear in flying - catastrophic structural failure and not having control. Thankfully, it's rare.
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I did manage to exit a perfectly servicable aircraft at 2,000' with a static line chute, being that high the normal survival fear instinct wasn't triggered!
They say the hardest thing to do in parachute training is the low jump because your genes recognize THAT TREE IS TOO TALL! - AND THIS WILL PROBABLY HURT!
I find that a closed cockpit glider or light aircraft is not a problem. Open cockpit, or the Super Cub in a well banked right turn with the door open, now that sets all the alarm bells ringing, as well as being enormous fun when you get used to it! From a Zedburgh glider you can spit on the spectators!
From the ground, you can hear them screaming quite clearly, as they go over the top of the loop.
Probably better you don't ask for aerobatics at this stage. When you are confident in handling your aircraft, it makes more sense for you to practice the interesting maneuvers, as when you have control of the situation it is not nearly so scary as having to sit there clenching while some clown throws it around.
They say the hardest thing to do in parachute training is the low jump because your genes recognize THAT TREE IS TOO TALL! - AND THIS WILL PROBABLY HURT!
I find that a closed cockpit glider or light aircraft is not a problem. Open cockpit, or the Super Cub in a well banked right turn with the door open, now that sets all the alarm bells ringing, as well as being enormous fun when you get used to it! From a Zedburgh glider you can spit on the spectators!
From the ground, you can hear them screaming quite clearly, as they go over the top of the loop.
Probably better you don't ask for aerobatics at this stage. When you are confident in handling your aircraft, it makes more sense for you to practice the interesting maneuvers, as when you have control of the situation it is not nearly so scary as having to sit there clenching while some clown throws it around.
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I started out in gliders and had no problems with heights then. As a child and a teenager I had a normal fear of heights but this didn't translate into a fear of flying. I then started flying a flexwing microlight. This had just a fairing around my feet and a lap belt. I quickly got over any fear of height but ever since, I have had an opposite affliction; the urge to jump out.
I'm a perfectly sane individual with no mental health issues and enjoy life immensely, but when presented with a big drop, a large part of me wants to jump. What makes this particularly odd is that I've never been attracted to skydiving. It goes away though in enclosed cockpits and high-sided open cockpits. Perhaps I should skydive just to scratch the itch.
I've flown aeros, both powered and in gliders and found that the only new fear factor to get over was when hanging in the straps whilst diving near vertically under negative G. It took about 1/2hr to get over it and now I can't wait until I have the pennies to buy into a Christen Eagle syndicate.
If there's anyone out there who wants a very willing victim for the front seat of their Extra/Pitts/Eagle/Cap then please let me know.
I'm a perfectly sane individual with no mental health issues and enjoy life immensely, but when presented with a big drop, a large part of me wants to jump. What makes this particularly odd is that I've never been attracted to skydiving. It goes away though in enclosed cockpits and high-sided open cockpits. Perhaps I should skydive just to scratch the itch.
I've flown aeros, both powered and in gliders and found that the only new fear factor to get over was when hanging in the straps whilst diving near vertically under negative G. It took about 1/2hr to get over it and now I can't wait until I have the pennies to buy into a Christen Eagle syndicate.
If there's anyone out there who wants a very willing victim for the front seat of their Extra/Pitts/Eagle/Cap then please let me know.
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AdamF,
When it comes down to it, maybe that is actually my fear too, a component failure and not having control, hence not enjoying fun fair rides, The London Eye, hot air balloons or even driving at excessive speeds!
Maybe it's a feeling of trust!
Perhaps it's the fact that that the Robinson R22 is so small and fragile looking and twitchy, I wonder if i'd feel as uneasy if flying in a Sea King which gives the 'illusion' of being more substantial and better built!
K77.
When it comes down to it, maybe that is actually my fear too, a component failure and not having control, hence not enjoying fun fair rides, The London Eye, hot air balloons or even driving at excessive speeds!
Maybe it's a feeling of trust!
Perhaps it's the fact that that the Robinson R22 is so small and fragile looking and twitchy, I wonder if i'd feel as uneasy if flying in a Sea King which gives the 'illusion' of being more substantial and better built!
K77.
Last edited by KNIEVEL77; 17th Jun 2011 at 21:04.
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Here is an article I wrote for AOPA Magazine a few years ago on pilot anxiety. You may find it useful.
www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf
www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf
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Not keen on heights - such as at the top of a skyscraper. But with fixed wing flying I don't get that anxiety - likely reason is that a plane will not "fall" like I would from the top of a building; it will glide gracefully to the ground.
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Maybe one can rationalise it.
I hate being up on a ladder - even 2m high. But flying has never been an issue.
Once I flew with a friend who got anxious when we did a turn. He thought that if you tip the plane to one side, it will slide down, sideways. So I showed him that this doesn't happen (the centrifugal force balances the pull of gravity) and he was fine after that.
I hate being up on a ladder - even 2m high. But flying has never been an issue.
Once I flew with a friend who got anxious when we did a turn. He thought that if you tip the plane to one side, it will slide down, sideways. So I showed him that this doesn't happen (the centrifugal force balances the pull of gravity) and he was fine after that.
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IO540,
It's the turns that I struggle with, as soon as I bank I want to level out straight away, I struggle with moving the cyclic as far left or right as I need to as something is telling me to move it the opposite way.
I hope it's something i'll overcome, and quickly!
It's the turns that I struggle with, as soon as I bank I want to level out straight away, I struggle with moving the cyclic as far left or right as I need to as something is telling me to move it the opposite way.
I hope it's something i'll overcome, and quickly!
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I have fear of heights, I hate the steps up to the entrance of a normal 737 but I don't fear that anxiety when I fly.
Someone once told me you need to have contact with the ground to have real fear of heights, and it seems to work for me that way.
I have no issues with steep turns, I find height in a plane exciting, the view to the ground magic, literally zero fear of the height.
But on my way to the Alps by car, the motorway from Dijon to Geneva, near Nantua just kills me. sweaty palms and all! The new Milleau bridge is one I will not cross.....
Someone once told me you need to have contact with the ground to have real fear of heights, and it seems to work for me that way.
I have no issues with steep turns, I find height in a plane exciting, the view to the ground magic, literally zero fear of the height.
But on my way to the Alps by car, the motorway from Dijon to Geneva, near Nantua just kills me. sweaty palms and all! The new Milleau bridge is one I will not cross.....
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Yawningdog,
I have just read your article in full.
Thank you for the link, it was extremely interesting.
I had no idea anxiety was so common among pilots.
It was really interesting to read that you are more relaxed flying with a cloud cover rather than in bright clear blue skies...............I feel exactly the same........but WHY, I don't know the answer?
K77.
I have just read your article in full.
Thank you for the link, it was extremely interesting.
I had no idea anxiety was so common among pilots.
It was really interesting to read that you are more relaxed flying with a cloud cover rather than in bright clear blue skies...............I feel exactly the same........but WHY, I don't know the answer?
K77.
Last edited by KNIEVEL77; 18th Jun 2011 at 20:20.
Fear of Heights
I have had a fear of heights as far back as I can remember (60+years!) but it is of "open" exposures. I have been to the top of Sears Tower when it was the highest building in the world and had no problem looking out, but felt very uncomfortable two weeks ago getting onto a glass sided escalator crossing the void at the middle of a shopping centre. I have never had a problem with flying or most mechanical transport, I loved crossing the Forth Bridge, by train, as a child, but would not have wanted to walk across!
I don't mind high places in a train but get spooked in a car, so there may be an element of control freakary!
The silliest experience was flying IFR but in the clear, in a Cherokee6 with a fellow controller who was also high hours PPL. As we levelled at FL50 over the Needles, on the Isle of Wight, we could clearly see cars making their way along the cliff road out to the point. Looking at these people from 5,000 feet above them, we both turned and uttered the same thought to each other, "you wouldn't get me up there!"
All perspective and it can change!
I don't mind high places in a train but get spooked in a car, so there may be an element of control freakary!
The silliest experience was flying IFR but in the clear, in a Cherokee6 with a fellow controller who was also high hours PPL. As we levelled at FL50 over the Needles, on the Isle of Wight, we could clearly see cars making their way along the cliff road out to the point. Looking at these people from 5,000 feet above them, we both turned and uttered the same thought to each other, "you wouldn't get me up there!"
All perspective and it can change!
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I've had it happen to me. I've parachuted and abseiled and enjoy skiing steep slopes. I have no problem being near an edge as long as I have confidence that what I'm standing on or can grab is secure. On the face of it I should have no problem.
In my case it happened when I was in a glider and joined another in a thermal. A short distance away from me was another glider and underneath, holding it up was............. nothing! My immediate thought was that a few inches under my backside was.......... nothing, and lots of it.
This was many years after I learned to fly so why did it suddenly maniifest itself? I have no idea but you get used to it, it's all a matter of having confidence in what's holding you up, whether it's a climbing rope, a ladder, a karabiner or an airframe. We don't worry about a chair bed or hammock giving way under us do we? Once the confidence is there you stop worrying about it.
I can understand the feeling in an R22, after all what your flying is some distance above you, all you're doing is dangling underneath it!
In my case it happened when I was in a glider and joined another in a thermal. A short distance away from me was another glider and underneath, holding it up was............. nothing! My immediate thought was that a few inches under my backside was.......... nothing, and lots of it.
This was many years after I learned to fly so why did it suddenly maniifest itself? I have no idea but you get used to it, it's all a matter of having confidence in what's holding you up, whether it's a climbing rope, a ladder, a karabiner or an airframe. We don't worry about a chair bed or hammock giving way under us do we? Once the confidence is there you stop worrying about it.
I can understand the feeling in an R22, after all what your flying is some distance above you, all you're doing is dangling underneath it!
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Interesting thread....
I have absolutely zero fear of heights whilst flying and like other posters have done static line parachuting with no probs - from standing on the wing of a DH Rapide.
Likewise tall buildings, cliffs etc are fine with me
However, I completely freak when faced with heights WITHIN a building, for example looking down the centre of a high staircase.
I once agreed to climb up to the whispering gallery in St Pauls. When I emerged at the circular walkway with a 200 ft plus void below the sensation of falling to my death was overwhelming. I froze with fear and my wife had to carefully prise my hands from the railings and guide me back to the stairs.
I have absolutely zero fear of heights whilst flying and like other posters have done static line parachuting with no probs - from standing on the wing of a DH Rapide.
Likewise tall buildings, cliffs etc are fine with me
However, I completely freak when faced with heights WITHIN a building, for example looking down the centre of a high staircase.
I once agreed to climb up to the whispering gallery in St Pauls. When I emerged at the circular walkway with a 200 ft plus void below the sensation of falling to my death was overwhelming. I froze with fear and my wife had to carefully prise my hands from the railings and guide me back to the stairs.
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I spent 20+ years climbing ladders and telephone poles with no issues, and can't remember having problems on any tall buildings. But when I started learning to fly in a flexwing microlight I certainly wasn't happy. In fact I quit after a few lessons. However I had another go and persevered. My instructor was quite correct that I would feel happier when I was doing the flying, rather than just being a passenger.
Now 20 years and 1200 hours later I have packed it in (money & health, being the main reasons). Over this period there were a number of occasions when I was genuinely scared - principally during turbulence, and in this situation I would always descend to low level, where I felt somewhat safer. Why, I don't know, I just did - that & "fear of heights", maybe? On the other hand I've been up to 10,000 ft in calm conditions and been OK (if bitterly cold). But the slightest "bump" would set my heart rate rising! I was perfectly happy chucking it around at up to 2000 ft or so, but no way would you find me practising "unusual attitudes" at higher levels... I've had a few short flights in R22's and can understand the "twitchyness" comments. I wonder if a lesson in something a bit heavier might help you?
Now 20 years and 1200 hours later I have packed it in (money & health, being the main reasons). Over this period there were a number of occasions when I was genuinely scared - principally during turbulence, and in this situation I would always descend to low level, where I felt somewhat safer. Why, I don't know, I just did - that & "fear of heights", maybe? On the other hand I've been up to 10,000 ft in calm conditions and been OK (if bitterly cold). But the slightest "bump" would set my heart rate rising! I was perfectly happy chucking it around at up to 2000 ft or so, but no way would you find me practising "unusual attitudes" at higher levels... I've had a few short flights in R22's and can understand the "twitchyness" comments. I wonder if a lesson in something a bit heavier might help you?
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Hi KNIEVEL77
I've watched this thread with some interest as I recently went on a rickety little Ferris wheel and was very unhappy, and nearly had a fit with my 6-year old rocking the seat. She thought it rather funny that her pilot father was uncomfortable at an altitude of about 50 ft! My wife is also uncomfortable whenever our aircraft banks.
My rationalisation is that it is a matter of confidence in whatever you are in or on. When new to any device preventing you from falling to your death, it is probably wise to be a little circumspect. However, with time and further experience, you build up trust in the device. You learn what it is you should be scared of, and what you don't need to be afraid of. Perhaps the irrationality of the fear may become clear when nothing happens and you see other people NOT falling out of the sky.
I'm not sure the steep banking by the instructor will be helpful - I find it's better to build up confidence in new flyers slowly by flying with only rate 1 turns and not pushing their boundaries any more than necessary. But then I'm not trained as an instructor and there may be some merit in demonstrating the excessive to show the normal is , well, normal!
Best wishes
I've watched this thread with some interest as I recently went on a rickety little Ferris wheel and was very unhappy, and nearly had a fit with my 6-year old rocking the seat. She thought it rather funny that her pilot father was uncomfortable at an altitude of about 50 ft! My wife is also uncomfortable whenever our aircraft banks.
My rationalisation is that it is a matter of confidence in whatever you are in or on. When new to any device preventing you from falling to your death, it is probably wise to be a little circumspect. However, with time and further experience, you build up trust in the device. You learn what it is you should be scared of, and what you don't need to be afraid of. Perhaps the irrationality of the fear may become clear when nothing happens and you see other people NOT falling out of the sky.
I'm not sure the steep banking by the instructor will be helpful - I find it's better to build up confidence in new flyers slowly by flying with only rate 1 turns and not pushing their boundaries any more than necessary. But then I'm not trained as an instructor and there may be some merit in demonstrating the excessive to show the normal is , well, normal!
Best wishes
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Caroberts,
Thanks for your post.
I agree with you, i'm not too good on rusty old ferris wheels either but quite happy at the top of The Eiffel Tower or Empire State Building.
I suppose I just need to trust the R22 a bit more which, as you say, will hopefully come through time.
K77.
Thanks for your post.
I agree with you, i'm not too good on rusty old ferris wheels either but quite happy at the top of The Eiffel Tower or Empire State Building.
I suppose I just need to trust the R22 a bit more which, as you say, will hopefully come through time.
K77.
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Very interesting reading all these different, yet similar, feelings.
Underneath our rational, civilized world is a dark mass of primeval instincts. So we shouldn't be too surprised when the thought pops into our mind, "there's 2000 feet of thin air 6 inches below my seat and I'm going to DIE!"
If you've never experienced this, your veneer of rationality is just a bit thicker.
It takes TIME to get used to the view out of the window - your problem, Knievel, is that you're paying £300 per hour for the view. One solution might be to find a cheaper good view - micro-lighting springs to mind.
However, the scares will always come back at some point - a new situation, a new aircraft, whatever - get used to dealing with it. Fear is good, anyway, in moderation - it keeps you sharp.
Underneath our rational, civilized world is a dark mass of primeval instincts. So we shouldn't be too surprised when the thought pops into our mind, "there's 2000 feet of thin air 6 inches below my seat and I'm going to DIE!"
If you've never experienced this, your veneer of rationality is just a bit thicker.
It takes TIME to get used to the view out of the window - your problem, Knievel, is that you're paying £300 per hour for the view. One solution might be to find a cheaper good view - micro-lighting springs to mind.
However, the scares will always come back at some point - a new situation, a new aircraft, whatever - get used to dealing with it. Fear is good, anyway, in moderation - it keeps you sharp.
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Agree with many of the previous posts, in that tall buildings down to the humble step-ladder incurs a distinct queasiness in me. Yet I have flown in many a/c from microlights upwards and enjoyed every moment, even at extreme turbulence, angles of bank, inverted etc. I've never been able to understand this, but am heartened to know I'm not alone; seriously, simply going up through the loft hatch is put off unless absolutely necessary with me.
I too hate heights, or rather I hate exposure to heights which is a different thing I believe. Walking along mountain paths in the Alps I can feel my anxiety levels creeping up the narrower the path becomes. Quite irrational as their is virtually no chance of falling from the path over the side.
I have no problem at all when flying, although I once tried a tandom paraglide flight in Switzerland and suffered greatly. The strange feeling of being suspended way infront of the instructor in what felt like a very slack harness with several thousand feet of valley floor beneath my feet certainly made me feel very exposed. When he handed me control of the wing I felt much better, in fact I came to quite enjoy the experience! I might even do a course one day!
I have no problem at all when flying, although I once tried a tandom paraglide flight in Switzerland and suffered greatly. The strange feeling of being suspended way infront of the instructor in what felt like a very slack harness with several thousand feet of valley floor beneath my feet certainly made me feel very exposed. When he handed me control of the wing I felt much better, in fact I came to quite enjoy the experience! I might even do a course one day!